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關於 KudoZ 運作的談論(Let's Talk about the KudoZ Matters ) Thread poster: Wenjer Leuschel (X)
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ysun 
United States
Local time: 09:37
English to Chinese
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redred wrote:
在KudoZ上间或出现一些提问者给予的"无得分"问题，问的问题也不短，还苛求回答者是该专业的人士，换言之，想回答问题还要够资格，我们为什么还要去凑热闹呢？
其实，大可不必要求回答者必须具有什么资格，因为回答者多一些只有好处没有坏处。如果对答案不满意，不予采纳就是了。再说，所谓专业人士，也不一定就能答对。关于“无得分”问题，有时会见到大意是这样的话：Question closed without grading. Reason: answer found elsewhere. 那么，如果你认为大家提供的答案不正确，能否把你在别处找到的正确答案与曾经热心帮助过你的人们共享一下？这是个最起码的礼貌问题吧。
有些提问者觉得自己兜里装着那一大把 KudoZ points，就可以神气十足，好像别人在等待他的恩施似的。其实他首先应该搞清楚，是他有求于别人而不是相反。例如，某人在一个KudoZ question里同时列出三个问题。当有人给出第一个问题的正确答案后，他马上就说：“If you would like full credit, please answer Question Two.” 虽然这三个问题都很简单，一下子答了也不是不可以，但提问者不应以回答其它问题作为得分的先决条件。
（声明：就事论事，有则改之，无则加勉。若有雷同，纯属巧合。）
[Edited at 2006-05-25 00:26]
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Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Taiwan
Local time: 22:37
English to Chinese
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TOPIC STARTER
redred wrote:
在KudoZ上间或出现一些提问者给予的"无得分"问题，问的问题也不短，还苛求回答者是该专业的人士，换言之，想回答问题还要够资格，我们为什么还要去凑热闹呢？
一般人與人的來往都預設了雙方的平等地位，互通有無，相攙相扶，這是人間必然需要的交流。這也是 KudoZ 的用意，讓翻譯人之間能夠互相幫助，因為到底無人是全知全能的。
不過，總是有些人恃才傲物，不管提問或回答別人問題，總是不能以平等尊重的態度出之，頗令人懊惱。對於那種人，最好的辦法是不予理睬。別人憑什麼要幫助他們呢？他們又憑什麼要求別人的幫助呢？
KudoZ 分數其實不代表什麼。除了大約表示一個人多多幫助了別人之外，並沒有其它的評價意義，所以給分數倒不必一副施恩的樣貌。有些人還大言不慚地說他們分數給得公正呢；你回答得雖然對了，但不符合他們認為的優美文字標準 (也就是說，他們可以立即當作自己的翻譯交給客戶領得錢財的文字)，他們就不客氣教訓起提供答案的同仁："這樣的文字令人不敢恭維" 或 "這樣的答案我自己也找得到" 等等。所以說，對那種人，大家也沒必要客氣什麼，但為避免衝突，不理就是了。
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ysun
United States
Local time: 09:37
English to Chinese
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Wenjer Leuschel wrote:
KudoZ 分數其實不代表什麼。除了大約表示一個人多多幫助了別人之外，並沒有其它的評價意義，所以給分數倒不必一副施恩的樣貌。
有位翻译朋友几年来KudoZ分数一直是零，Forum也从不参与。但据我所知，他一直忙得不可开交，有时还打电话来问我有没有空替他分担一些活。我开玩笑说，他是在“闷声大发财”。;)
[Edited at 2006-05-25 14:45]
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ysun
United States
Local time: 09:37
English to Chinese
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| Is this in compliance with KudoZ rules? | May 25, 2006 |
Somebody even put a warning to askers in his KudoZ questions like this:
“Warning: In order to provide ProZ.com users with the best glossary entries possible, more than one question for the same entry will be asked from time to time. Please keep in mind when responding that you will be graded on your responses to ALL questions asked.”
Is this in compliance with KudoZ rules?
乍一看这个冠冕堂皇的warning，还以为前面有地雷呢，干紧着�... See more Somebody even put a warning to askers in his KudoZ questions like this:
“Warning: In order to provide ProZ.com users with the best glossary entries possible, more than one question for the same entry will be asked from time to time. Please keep in mind when responding that you will be graded on your responses to ALL questions asked.”
Is this in compliance with KudoZ rules?
乍一看这个冠冕堂皇的warning，还以为前面有地雷呢，干紧着绕道而行。正像小红所说，“我们为什么还要去凑热闹呢？”咱们犯不着，还是上别处卖宝刀去吧！:D
[Edited at 2006-05-25 17:23] ▲ Collapse
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Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Taiwan
Local time: 22:37
English to Chinese
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TOPIC STARTER | 呵，這樣的人我倒認識一堆呢！ | May 25, 2006 |
Yueyin Sun wrote:
有位翻译朋友几年来KudoZ分数一直是零，Forum也从不参与。但据我所知，他一直忙得不可开交，有时还打电话来问我有没有空替他分担一些活。我开玩笑说，他是在“闷声大发财”。;)
呵，這樣的人我倒認識一堆呢！就是悶聲發財。
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Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Taiwan
Local time: 22:37
English to Chinese
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TOPIC STARTER
不过，我很想知道别人对这样的处理有怎样的想法：
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/1815126
这道题说的“热点”是一种特殊情况下的“瓶颈”，不会是通常情况下的“瓶颈”，否则可以直接称为 bottlenecks。既然称为 hot spots，绝对不会是没有原因的。学术研究上是怎样的称法呢？
<... See more 不过，我很想知道别人对这样的处理有怎样的想法：
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/1815126
这道题说的“热点”是一种特殊情况下的“瓶颈”，不会是通常情况下的“瓶颈”，否则可以直接称为 bottlenecks。既然称为 hot spots，绝对不会是没有原因的。学术研究上是怎样的称法呢？
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/1864532
What is a go-to-person? A go-to-person is supposed to be reliable, but he/she is not necessarily reliable.
If someone is said to be "the" go-to-person, when you need a transaltion project, will you necessarily go to him/her? I guess not. Why?
Fortunately, I know a lot of go-to-persons for different projects that happen to come in at mine and I appreciate the reliability of those go-to-persons who have proved to be reliable. Many thanks to you, who are reliable and stay anonymous and low-profiled all the time. Thank you and you know to whom you may go when you need something he is in possession of. ▲ Collapse
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Shaunna (X)
United States
Local time: 10:37
English to Chinese
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这个我觉得确实应该是热点，瓶颈不太讲得通。
如果我是asker，发现自己答案选错了，我会象proz询问有没有办法悔改，如果没法改，我也会向answerer写信致歉，分不分的是小事，尊重别人的付出是要紧。
我也一次碰到别人明显“误判”，觉得自己解释得很清楚，asker还明明白白地选错误答案，非常shocked。后来我给asker私下去信，同时也有别人指出问题，asker后来给我来信，原来她读不懂中文，根本没有看我的解释。心里才宽些，不然真是很不舒服，好象自己的劳作被人一揉就扔垃圾了。
Wenjer Leuschel wrote:
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/1864532
What is a go-to-person? A go-to-person is supposed to be reliable, but he/she is not necessarily reliable.
If someone is said to be "the" go-to-person, when you need a transaltion project, will you necessarily go to him/her? I guess not. Why?
乍一眼看，觉得从go-to-person本义出发，译成“可依赖的人”也说得通。再仔细看看，确实于这样的语境下，是说有一个专人负责解决客人的需要，客户有问题就可以找他（当然不是phsically "go-to"），确实应该是专人。
看来asker 选择了第一令她/他理解了原文意思的答案，或者他/她自己还没有真正认识到选择的并不是最好的答案。
不过不管怎样选择时如果加上说明就好了，尊重所有人的劳动。
[Edited at 2007-04-13 20:31]
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jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 10:37
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
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Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Taiwan
Local time: 22:37
English to Chinese
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TOPIC STARTER | 该给人家的 credit 绝不吝啬 | Apr 13, 2007 |
Shaunna wrote:
这个我觉得确实应该是热点，瓶颈不太讲得通。
你大概没有看到 "This question was closed without grading. Reason: Answer found elsewhere" 这些字样。Asker 根本没有选择任何人提供的答案，另外那个 "耗能设备" 是结束之后才贴出的，而且那是对 "热点" 诠释。
如果 Answer found elsewhere，我倒很好奇，Google 上发现的？Google 上的东西错误一大堆，还能尽信吗？功力不行的人极有可能会随便相信自己找到了正确的答案。那是一点都没办法的事。但若出于不给别人 credit 的故意，则是极不讨喜的做法。
Shaunna wrote:
我个人觉得，这个go-to-person在这个语境下译作“专人”很好，（公司有专人负责某一片，很好），但是译成“可靠的人”也不为错。
所谓“疑人不用、用人不疑”，既然用了个“专人”当然是假设他可靠。我想，我已经解释得很清楚了。"go-to-person" 只是 supposed to be reliable，reliable person 是衍生出来的意义，原本的意义是“专人”，也就是专办某件、某类事或专门伺候某(些)人的人。
话说回来，每个人都有可能看错、想错、做错，我提这些事来谈，并没有特别责怪他人的意思，只是提出来提醒一下，做事稍微少点私心、多点公益和公义的考量，可以减少不必要的摩擦。
另外说，Google 上查到的东西确实有不少的错误，不只是错别字，知识学问上的错误也常常可以看到，选择正确的答案只能凭个人自己的素养。同样情况也出现在 KudoZ 的问答上，有不少外国朋友写信跟我谈一些德文、西班牙文和英文解答方面的问题。老实说，如同我先前在这串讨论栏里说过的许多，人们在 KudoZ 上表现的往往也只是性情而已，确切的解答常常是 found elsewhere - usually found in our own brains 的。因此，如果我提问，我的要求较低，不会希望别人提供面面俱到的详尽解答，方向对了，我就已经很感谢了，该给人家的 credit 绝不吝啬。
[Edited at 2007-04-14 00:45]
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Shaunna (X)
United States
Local time: 10:37
English to Chinese
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是的，我后来细看也发现自己开始看偏了。
在你回这帖前我已经将这段改了。 
还是你理解得准，再admire一回。
Wenjer Leuschel wrote:
Shaunna wrote:
我个人觉得，这个go-to-person在这个语境下译作“专人”很好，（公司有专人负责某一片，很好），但是译成“可靠的人”也不为错。
所谓“疑人不用、用人不疑”，既然用了个“专人”当然是假设他可靠。我想，我已经解释得很清楚了。"go-to-person" 只是 supposed to be reliable，reliable person 是衍生出来的意义，原本的意义是“专人”，也就是专办某件、某类事或专门伺候某(些)人的人。
[Edited at 2007-04-13 21:16]
[Edited at 2007-04-14 00:49]
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clearwater
China
Local time: 22:37
English to Chinese
Wenjer Leuschel wrote:
不过，我很想知道别人对这样的处理有怎样的想法：
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/1815126
这道题说的“热点”是一种特殊情况下的“瓶颈”，不会是通常情况下的“瓶颈”，否则可以直接称为 bottlenecks。既然称为 hot spots，绝对不会是没有原因的。学术研究上是怎样的称法呢？
hot spot
的最常用意思如下：
In the world of IT this term refers to places that have wireless Internet connections. Many national and local retailers, especially coffee shops, are adding wireless hot spots to provide the tech-savvy another reason to stop in and spend some money and some time.
即通常所说的：“热点（地区）”，是提供无线连接的区域或场所。
但放在本贴中，显然解释不通。
另外，hot spot还有如下这层意思：
5. More generally, any place in a hardware design that turns into a performance bottleneck due to resource contention.
故而觉得“性能瓶颈”比较合适。
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wherestip
United States
Local time: 09:37
Chinese to English
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| double-edged sword | Apr 14, 2007 |
我觉得 KudoZ 的东西, 只能睁一只眼闭一只眼, the same as many things said in this forum. 
Actually I believe KudoZ is really a double-edged sword. It really puts the asker in the spotlight on how he or she decides on a suggestion. 
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Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Taiwan
Local time: 22:37
English to Chinese
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TOPIC STARTER | Something like what we can meet in Google | Apr 14, 2007 |
wherestip wrote:
我觉得 KudoZ 的东西, 只能睁一只眼闭一只眼, the same as many things said in this forum.
Just like that and don't try to set up any display selection criteria.
Questions can be just as stupid as answers. That's the double-edged sword in life.
[Edited at 2007-04-14 02:21]
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Huijun Suo
China
Local time: 22:37
English to Chinese
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本人为期一个月、代号“小旋风”的 KudoZ 快速脱贫行动宣告圆满结束。在各位同仁的悉心指导和热情支持下，我感觉自己处理翻译疑难问题的能力大有长进，个人认为这样一个栏目对于 ProZ 新人还是很有帮助的。至于分数，就如 Wenjer 所说，多了也肥不起来，重在参与和汲取其中真正有益的东西，探索解决问题的思路和方法。本人将继续参与，只是会在关注强度上量力而行。谢谢大家：Askers, Answers, Those who agree, disagree and stand neutral, and Moderator.
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wherestip
United States
Local time: 09:37
Chinese to English
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| Final Arbiter | Apr 14, 2007 |
Wenjer Leuschel wrote:
wherestip wrote:
我觉得 KudoZ 的东西, 只能睁一只眼闭一只眼, the same as many things said in this forum.
Just like that and don't try to set up any display selection criteria.
Questions can be just as stupid as answers. That's the double-edged sword in life.
Wenjer,
I'd better not dig myself any deeper than what I already had. But it's indeed how I feel about the overall quality of KudoZ questions and answers from my own participation off and on for a period of time.
Although the person posing the KudoZ question may have the final say on which suggestion is most helpful and best fits the context, ultimately he or she is also being evaluated and held responsible on sound judgment and fairness in the public eye, largely depending on but not necessarily restricted to the merit of language. In this sense I think it is indeed a double-edged sword.
[Edited at 2007-04-15 12:10]
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