關於 KudoZ 運作的談論(Let's Talk about the KudoZ Matters )

Lesley McLachlan wrote:

Discussing the personal behaviour of other users is prohibited.

'Personal attacks on groups or individuals, discussing the personal behavior of other users or inhibiting any person in any way from enjoying the service, is prohibited.'

Kevin Yang wrote:




Lesley,

Thank you for alerting everyone here. If we all used the rules like you demonstrated, I would have reminded you the same when you posted the following thread:

http://www.proz.com/topic/38817

All the messages posted so far are within the boundary of the topic that this thread intends to discuss.

Kevin

Yueyin Sun wrote:

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/1297108
A) He has come last night.
B) He came last night.
Which is correct?

Wenjer Leuschel wrote:

Has he come last night? I don't know.
He came last night, all right.
I guess, he must have come last night.
(Because I heard him...)

Yueyin Sun wrote:
文哲：你好像在做诗呢！

Kevin Yang wrote:




Lesley,

Thank you for alerting everyone here. If we all used the rules like you demonstrated, I would have reminded you the same when you posted the following thread:

http://www.proz.com/topic/38817

All the messages posted so far are within the boundary of the topic that this thread intends to discuss.

Kevin

Wenjer Leuschel wrote:



語言這東西總是要從小就在其中，否則許多細微的差異很難感覺到。前此曾有意找大家談談母語者和非母語者的語感差異，不過沒有兩種母語經驗的人，談起這樣的話題相當困難，我自己也同樣說不出個所以然來。

不過，既然走上了翻譯的道路，勤能補拙、手能生腳 (我口齒不清，應該說：熟能生巧)，外國語文裡的東西原本不懂，多接觸、多和母語者交換意見，向他們印證自己的理解，一人不足為證為憑，那就多問幾個人，如果有百分之八十以上的母語者都是同一個意見、同一個解讀，那當然就要依人家的，否則堅持著自己半生不熟的理解，那就真的永遠學不到東西。

一般情況下，我非常忌諱一竿子打翻整條船，但在我接觸翻譯者以來，一向發現翻譯者大多相當自負。這也許由於他們比較幸運，外國語文學到了某個程度，拿自己的成就和一般人相比，呵，自己可真是絕頂聰明，別人不會的我都會耶；因此，有些翻譯者忘了語文的學習和語文程度的提升，全都必須長期與人接觸溝通方可達到，弄錯的地方修正即是，沒有必要為了面子堅持己見。

簡單說：沒有人十全十美，也沒有人全知全能；能夠承認自己的缺失，方有可能進步。其實，大家都是這樣過來的，也會繼續這樣過去的，所以知不足方能長進，知足方能常樂，這分寸的拿捏也是要學習的。

做詩？Nee, 同樂一下就好，不一定要有詩意。

Yueyin Sun wrote:



Kevin,

Finally, Bill showed the courage to accept the correct answer "I must HAVE BEEN drunk last night" and stated that he was going to change his attitude. That's a good sign. Let's wait and see.

I think the reason he got confused is that either his grammar book is wrong or he went to the wrong section (the usage of perfect tense). The key issue in this question is the usage of "must". Longman Contemporary English-Chinese Dictionary 《朗文现代英汉双解词典》 (p920-921) has a clear and detailed explanation in this respect. I think 《朗文英语语法大全》 would also have such explanations.

It is inevitable for someone to make a mistake. As long as he admits and corrects the mistake, he is still a "good comrade". I wish I could believe that Bill must have been drunk when he made those mistakes!

[Edited at 2006-04-01 08:54]

Last Hermit wrote:

I must say I have never known that 'must' cannot be used to refer to a past incident.

So I must have made another silly mistake.

Last Hermit wrote:

So I must have made another silly mistake.

wherestip wrote:

There are lots of ways of saying the same thing with slight variations in meaning. For example:

He came last night.

He arrived last night.

He has arrived last night.

He was here last night.

He must have been here last night.

But typically you wouldn't hear someone say "He has come last night". It's understandable, but very awkward.

As for the other sentence in debate, IMHO the preferable expression would be:

I must have been drunk last night.

"I must have drunk last night" is, again, awkward, unless the drinker wasn't even sure if he's been drinking the night before, and was looking for confirmation.

Wenjer Leuschel wrote:

It's all right to ask "Did he come last night?" or "Has he come last night?"

It is perfectly ok, IMHO, to say "He must have been coming last night, since I heard him..."

I don't think I need to be more explicit, after all.