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趣文试译
Thread poster: chance (X)
David Shen
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杭州话会是这样说的 Nov 20, 2007

jyuan_us wrote:
Zhoudan wrote:
特别是那个纸张工作,估计是paperwork。不理解原文,也就表达不出来。
jyuan_us wrote:
我認為這些不是病句的問題﹐是表達障礙。

所以您和我的觀點是一致的。


英文太差的,中文太好的?
撑死胆大的,饿死胆小的。
最吃香的,都不怎么样的。
这点很象那些画画儿的。
画得好的,死得早的。
所不同的:
画越古老,抢着看的。
译文越老,没人读的。
弄啥花头呢?


 
Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Wenjer Leuschel (X)  Identity Verified
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自知之明 Nov 20, 2007

Yueyin Sun wrote:

文哲:

你的算术做得不错,但有些人可能会这样想:我若报价每千字 400 RMB,也许一个月连一个项目都拿不到。于是,你报价低,我就比你更低。

从另一方面讲,即使每天做上 3000 中文字,都应该有足够的时间去推敲译文,从而保证高质量。这样的质量,应该可以拿到好价钱,而且几乎天天有活干。


樂音:

那樣的心理,我並非不明白。但是,我說的是,「終於有一天他可以每千字 400 RMB 的價錢從事我們這個行業」,這就是關鍵了。算術倒一點都不重要。

其實,一天三千字並非不可能,而且還有充分時間拿捏譯文的品質。也不必想多賺多少,寧可每天只做一千字,卻不讓任何一個客戶跑掉,或隨時可以補充客戶,可以說服客戶,那麼二十五天的工作還是要賺它萬把人民幣。

問題的關鍵還是在於對自己和市場的真切認識。某些人我雖然可能永遠不會和他們搭上線合作,但他們對自己能力的自信倒還符合現實,所以他們就是不會在某種價格下去和別人搶生意,即使偶爾吃吃別的譯者的醋,倒也還懂得欣賞別人的長處,偷偷學上一把,而且靈活應用,所以他們不必擔憂沒有活幹,就是不成鉅富,溫飽絕對毫無問題。

我想「自知之明」對一個翻譯者要在市場上立足是非常重要的。這一點,我們這些老傢伙們大概老早就明白了。只是,有時言者諄諄、聽者藐藐,缺乏自知之明者就是無法明白。我常開玩笑用德語說,Wenn einer kein Gewissen hat, woher sollte er gewiss wissen, dass er das Zeug nicht hat? (賣弄個之乎者也的中文造詣:無良知者何以良而有知其之無之乎?) 自知之明大概就是這麼回事吧。


[Edited at 2007-11-20 17:39]


 
jyuan_us
jyuan_us
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要是沉下來什麼事也不想光做翻譯 Nov 20, 2007

Yueyin Sun wrote:

Wenjer Leuschel wrote:
......

簡單說,如果一個翻譯者以每千字 50 RMB 的價錢,每個月工作 25 天,還要賺取 10,000 RMB 的收入,那麼每天得做出 8000 字,......

不過,如果他終於可以每千字 400 RMB 的價錢從事我們這個行業,每個月還是工作 25 天,要賺取同樣的收入,那麼每天只需做出 1000 字,......

文哲:

你的算术做得不错,但有些人可能会这样想:我若报价每千字 400 RMB,也许一个月连一个项目都拿不到。于是,你报价低,我就比你更低。

从另一方面讲,即使每天做上 3000 中文字,都应该有足够的时间去推敲译文,从而保证高质量。这样的质量,应该可以拿到好价钱,而且几乎天天有活干。


3000字我不知道﹐2000字肯定能做到。但一天內項目管理上的閑雜事﹐比如回復郵件﹐做INVOICE﹐來回傳送文件等等﹐佔去很多時間﹐把時間一弄散﹐ 一天翻譯不了多少字。


 
jyuan_us
jyuan_us
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所以﹐真正牛的翻譯一天的收入應該在$360-$400之間 Nov 20, 2007

Yueyin Sun wrote:

Wenjer Leuschel wrote:
......

簡單說,如果一個翻譯者以每千字 50 RMB 的價錢,每個月工作 25 天,還要賺取 10,000 RMB 的收入,那麼每天得做出 8000 字,......

不過,如果他終於可以每千字 400 RMB 的價錢從事我們這個行業,每個月還是工作 25 天,要賺取同樣的收入,那麼每天只需做出 1000 字,......

文哲:

你的算术做得不错,但有些人可能会这样想:我若报价每千字 400 RMB,也许一个月连一个项目都拿不到。于是,你报价低,我就比你更低。

从另一方面讲,即使每天做上 3000 中文字,都应该有足够的时间去推敲译文,从而保证高质量。这样的质量,应该可以拿到好价钱,而且几乎天天有活干。


 
wherestip
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Nice discussion Nov 20, 2007

Yueyin Sun wrote:

那第5句译文,原来是毛荣贵先生自己译的。详见以下链接第八部分“整饬美(parallelism value)”。
http://edgarliang.cnblogs.com/archive/2006/01/17/23745.html



Yueyin,

This professor is quite long-winded, violating one of his own propositions of the merit of brevity. But I guess that's still how you make a living these days, not unlike the bygone era of the '60s. Remember how we had to sit through all those 报告 and 忆苦思甜 that lasted forever, sometimes on the bare floor of an auditorium without chairs? The worst thing was sometimes you couldn't understand a word being said due to the speaker's accent

Despite some of the strange terminology he came up with(such as "full-grownness value", "mistiness value", "music value", etc.), I believe he made some valid points regarding the importance of style in translation, or what he termed "aesthetics". As I mentioned previously, balancing out the style of both the source text and the target text is a major challenge in the translation of literary work. Sufficient respect and consideration need to be given to the literary style of the original in my personal opinion.

BTW, you guys have a very good discussion going on here ... very interesting. Chance will have a lot to think about when she gets back.



[Edited at 2007-11-20 19:33]


 
isahuang
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看出来了,jyuan,你需要一个小蜜来帮你。:D Nov 20, 2007

jyuan_us wrote:

3000字我不知道﹐2000字肯定能做到。但一天內項目管理上的閑雜事﹐比如回復郵件﹐做INVOICE﹐來回傳送文件等等﹐佔去很多時間﹐把時間一弄散﹐ 一天翻譯不了多少字。



[Edited at 2007-11-20 17:12]


 
jyuan_us
jyuan_us
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Hmm Nov 20, 2007

Tingting Huang wrote:

jyuan_us wrote:

3000字我不知道﹐2000字肯定能做到。但一天內項目管理上的閑雜事﹐比如回復郵件﹐做INVOICE﹐來回傳送文件等等﹐佔去很多時間﹐把時間一弄散﹐ 一天翻譯不了多少字。



[Edited at 2007-11-20 17:12]


[Edited at 2007-11-20 17:22]

[Edited at 2007-11-20 17:37]


 
wherestip
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Brevity is the soul of wit - William Shakespeare Nov 20, 2007

Some quotes on brevity ...

http://www.quotegarden.com/brevity.html




It is with words as with sunbeams. The more they are condensed, the deeper they burn.
~ Robert Southey


Good things, when short, are twice as good.
~ Baltasar Gracian, The Art of Worldly Wisdom


It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what other men say in whole books - what other men do not say in whole books.
~ Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche, Twilight of the Idols


Therefore, since brevity is the soul of wit,
And tediousness the limbs and outward flourishes,
I will be brief.
~ William Shakespeare, Hamlet


The most valuable of all talents is that of never using two words when one will do.
~ Thomas Jefferson


My great-grandfather used to say to his wife, my great-grandmother, who in turn told her daughter, my grandmother, who repeated it to her daughter, my mother, who used to remind her daughter, my own sister, that to talk well and eloquently was a very great art, but that an equally great one was to know the right moment to stop.
~ Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart


A sentence should contain no unnecessary words, a paragraph no unnecessary sentences, for the same reason that a drawing should have no unnecessary lines and a machine no unnecessary parts.
~ William Strunk, Jr., The Elements of Style, 1918


If it takes a lot of words to say what you have in mind, give it more thought.
~ Dennis Roth


The present letter is a very long one, simply because I had no leisure to make it shorter.
~ Blaise Pascal, translated from French, Lettres Provinciales, XVI, 1656


In composing, as a general rule, run your pen through every other word you have written; you have no idea what vigor it will give your style.
~ Sydney Smith


If you bring that sentence in for a fitting, I can have it shortened by Wednesday.
~ M*A*S*H, Hawkeye, "The Gun"


"In good prose (says Schlegel) every word should be underlined!" that is, every word should be the right one; and then no one would be righter than another. There are no italics in Plato.
~ Augustus William Hare and Julius Charles Hare, Guesses at Truth, by Two Brothers, 1827


He replies nothing but monosyllables. I believe he would make three bites of a cherry.
~ Rabelais, Pantagruel


Any philosophy that can be put in a nutshell belongs there.
~ Branch Rickey


If any man will draw up his case, and put his name at the foot of the first page, I will give him an immediate reply. Where he compels me to turn over the sheet, he must wait my leisure.
~ Lord Sandwich


Brevity is the soul of lingerie.
~ Dorothy Parker


If you can't write your idea on the back of my calling card, you don't have a clear idea.
~ David Belasco





[Edited at 2007-11-20 18:02]


 
ysun
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Steve, Nov 20, 2007

说起听报告,以前在国内时确实经常要听报告。我最喜欢在几千人的大礼堂里听报告,因为那时打瞌睡决没人管。实际上,那些在主席台上就座的也有打瞌睡的,何况我们。:D 最难忘的是当年大学毕业后在兰州军区接受再教育时听军区一位部长做报告。零下20多度的三九寒天我们几百个学生露天坐在操场上。尽管穿着毛皮鞋,脚指头也冻得麻木了。这位首长兴致勃勃地一连讲了... See more
说起听报告,以前在国内时确实经常要听报告。我最喜欢在几千人的大礼堂里听报告,因为那时打瞌睡决没人管。实际上,那些在主席台上就座的也有打瞌睡的,何况我们。:D 最难忘的是当年大学毕业后在兰州军区接受再教育时听军区一位部长做报告。零下20多度的三九寒天我们几百个学生露天坐在操场上。尽管穿着毛皮鞋,脚指头也冻得麻木了。这位首长兴致勃勃地一连讲了4个小时都不带休息的。由于天气极冷,早上又喝了不少稀饭,很多人都憋着想上厕所,但他却喋喋不休。突然,他说了一声“好”,大家以为总算熬到头了,不料他接着说:“请大家等一会,我上趟厕所”,确实差点让大家晕过去。:D

至于毛先生的英文,我也有同感,他的英文有些部分读起来确实有点怪怪的。

我不懂什么美学,但猜想毛先生所说的翻译美大概就是人们常说的“雅”。我还没时间认真拜读毛先生的报告,只是大概瞄了一眼。他一下子搞了个十美,我也真服了他了,但国内就兴这个:
一、音韵美 (music value)
二、节奏美(rhythm value)
三、简约美(conciseness value)
四、丰润美 (full-grownness value)
五、意境美(artistic conception value)
六、口吻美(tone value)
七、形象美 (image value)
八、整饬美(parallelism value)
九、朦胧美(mistiness value)
十、创造美(creativity value)

关于这场讨论,我也同意你的观点,Chance发起的这场讨论确实很好。尤其是前面关于她那段译文的讨论。我前一时期特忙,故未参与那一部分的讨论,但我相信这样的讨论,大家都能从中受益。
Collapse


 
ysun
ysun  Identity Verified
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这里说的是中文字 Nov 20, 2007

jyuan_us wrote:

Yueyin Sun wrote:

从另一方面讲,即使每天做上 3000 中文字,都应该有足够的时间去推敲译文,从而保证高质量。这样的质量,应该可以拿到好价钱,而且几乎天天有活干。


3000字我不知道﹐2000字肯定能做到。但一天內項目管理上的閑雜事﹐比如回復郵件﹐做INVOICE﹐來回傳送文件等等﹐佔去很多時間﹐把時間一弄散﹐ 一天翻譯不了多少字。

3000中文字只相当于不到2000英文字。一天翻译2000英文字应该是正常的。相信国内某些朋友所说的一天一万字也是指中文字。


 
ysun
ysun  Identity Verified
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Just kidding! Nov 20, 2007

如果有了小蜜,一天翻不了200字!
Tingting Huang wrote:

看出来了,jyuan,你需要一个小蜜来帮你。:D
jyuan_us wrote:

3000字我不知道﹐2000字肯定能做到。但一天內項目管理上的閑雜事﹐比如回復郵件﹐做INVOICE﹐來回傳送文件等等﹐佔去很多時間﹐把時間一弄散﹐ 一天翻譯不了多少字。



[Edited at 2007-11-20 17:12]


 
pkchan
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想做小袁的小蜜 Nov 20, 2007

應該是不太容易的,詳見往帖。

 
wherestip
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No stinkers Nov 20, 2007

pkchan wrote:

想做小袁的小蜜

應該是不太容易的,詳見往帖。


I know what you mean ... manners and personal hygiene a must.

http://www.proz.com/post/560316#560316



[Edited at 2007-11-20 20:44]


 
jyuan_us
jyuan_us
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哈哈﹐我小米也得有這10美才成。 Nov 20, 2007

Yueyin Sun wrote:


一、音韵美 (music value)
二、节奏美(rhythm value)
三、简约美(conciseness value)
四、丰润美 (full-grownness value)
五、意境美(artistic conception value)
六、口吻美(tone value)
七、形象美 (image value)
八、整饬美(parallelism value)
九、朦胧美(mistiness value)
十、创造美(creativity value)




 
pkchan
pkchan  Identity Verified
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聽說那個日本機械美蜜是這樣program的 Nov 20, 2007

但是價錢絕不便宜,不過只要來做翻譯就非常浪費了。看看是否可以有其他options.

jyuan_us wrote:

Yueyin Sun wrote:


一、音韵美 (music value)
二、节奏美(rhythm value)
三、简约美(conciseness value)
四、丰润美 (full-grownness value)
五、意境美(artistic conception value)
六、口吻美(tone value)
七、形象美 (image value)
八、整饬美(parallelism value)
九、朦胧美(mistiness value)
十、创造美(creativity value)




 
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