| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8] > | 如何开始和发展自由翻译者事业 Thread poster: hongsang
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Bill Lao
Local time: 14:01
English to Chinese
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| thank you very much! | Jun 14, 2005 |
Yueyin Sun wrote:
Could you please post some of your translation examples in your Kudoz Portfolio? It will help others to know your capability. If I feel you are qualified, I may ask you to do a paid test before sending you actual jobs. Thank you!
Thank you indeed Sun! I shall prepare that.
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Xuchun wrote:
這就說明，你並不需要比別的翻譯更優秀（差點也可以）才能找到工作機會。只要認真應付你的工作，再加上機會，就足夠了。
如果不优秀，可能偶然找到一两次机会，但不会是长久的。更不可能让客户找上门或者自己实行姜太公钓鱼，愿者上钩。
| | | | Wenjer Leuschel (X) 
Taiwan
Local time: 14:01
English to Chinese
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Last Hermit wrote:
Xuchun wrote:
這就說明，你並不需要比別的翻譯更優秀（差點也可以）才能找到工作機會。只要認真應付你的工作，再加上機會，就足夠了。
如果不优秀，可能偶然找到一两次机会，但不会是长久的。更不可能让客户找上门或者自己实行姜太公钓鱼，愿者上钩。
每一個人的一生做過的事情，從事的行業都有幾分運氣。世界和人間從來不完美，而且往往不是優秀者生存，而是適者生存。在翻譯這行裡，抱定決心耐心適應，運氣好則會發展出事業，運氣差也會是溫飽無虞。我個人比較傾向於鼓勵後進，仔細檢視自己具備的適應條件，再勇敢踏入本行，不因一時成敗而退縮或過度得意。
| | | | Kevin Yang
Local time: 23:01
Member (2003)
English to Chinese
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| A Mongolian doctor? | Jun 18, 2005 |
Lu Zou wrote:
论医学文章，我这个蒙古医生尚能蒙一阵，但化学的东西我就被蒙了，所以万一有一天哪位PM不开眼把你的译文送过来，我一定会先请教你一番再胡挥板斧(^-^)。 同意孙兄所言，世界真大，人人相距万里，但世界有真小，稍不留神就会遇见知道或见过的人，无论是笔头上还是网上。但也确实给人以学习提高的机会。
Hi, Lu Zou
Are you serious that you are a Mongolian doctor? I could not tell if you were just kidding. I was born in Huhhot, Inner Mongolia. My father was a pure blood Mongolian and married my mother who is from Jiangsu Province. She always calls herself "Princess Zhaojun".
Kevin
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Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Taiwan
Local time: 14:01
English to Chinese
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| You must be kidding! | Jun 18, 2005 |
Kevin Yang wrote:
Hi, Lu Zou
Are you serious that you are a Mongolian doctor? I could not tell if you were just kidding. I was born in Huhhot, Inner Mongolia. My father was a pure blood Mongolian and married my mother who is from Jiangsu Province. She always calls herself "Princess Zhaojun".
Kevin
Hi Kevin,
Excuse me to shoot in between. You must be kidding! You know that the expression "Mongolian doctor" is not to be taken literally. But interesting, your family story. I am also a product of a mixed marriage of historical and ongoing enemies. That is why I know how important it is to have Peace on Earth forevermore. And the task of the translator includes this.
Regards,
Wenjer
| | | | jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 02:01
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
Wenjer Leuschel wrote:
Kevin Yang wrote:
Hi, Lu Zou
Are you serious that you are a Mongolian doctor? I could not tell if you were just kidding. I was born in Huhhot, Inner Mongolia. My father was a pure blood Mongolian and married my mother who is from Jiangsu Province. She always calls herself "Princess Zhaojun".
Kevin
Hi Kevin,
Excuse me to shoot in between. You must be kidding! You know that the expression "Mongolian doctor" is not to be taken literally. But interesting, your family story. I am also a product of a mixed marriage of historical and ongoing enemies. That is why I know how important it is to have Peace on Earth forevermore. And the task of the translator includes this.
Regards,
Wenjer
| | | | Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Taiwan
Local time: 14:01
English to Chinese
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jyuan_us wrote:
你是中日MIX?
台灣是亞細亞孤兒，花不香、鳥不語、男無情、女無義的地方，二戰後來的一批人更是被視為男盜女娼 (有時他們的表現也確實如此－－沒人疼、沒人愛、一天到晚受到威脅、恐嚇的人，最後沒有那樣的表現也真難能可貴呢)；總的來說，這裡來來去去的民族非常之多，而且一向都是互相為敵的，所以什麼樣的 mix 都有可能。你就猜猜吧。
[Edited at 2005-06-18 10:21]
| | | | Bill Lao
Local time: 14:01
English to Chinese
+ ...
| It seems that | Jun 19, 2005 |
Kevin Yang wrote:
Are you serious that you are a Mongolian doctor? I could not tell if you were just kidding. I was born in Huhhot, Inner Mongolia. My father was a pure blood Mongolian and married my mother who is from Jiangsu Province. She always calls herself "Princess Zhaojun".
Kevin
It seems that Kevin's parent were from mainland. It must be that they went to Taiwan with Kuomindang before 1949, and then born Kevin. So actually Kevin is a mainlander.
I don't know what the Taiwaners think of Changkaishe, most mainlanders hate him and think he is wicked bastard. My grandfather, an early Communist, was killed by him. But this is thing far ago. History have turned over to a new page.
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Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Taiwan
Local time: 14:01
English to Chinese
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在台灣某位研究質量控管的翻譯人網頁上，有以下這麼一段文字，請求其他翻譯人表示意見：
Apple (Nasdaq: AAPL) co-founder Steve Wozniak told attendees at an information technology conference in Singapore today that innovation is no longer the driving force for some top computer companies and that Apple and Microsoft (Nasdaq: MSFT) " don't really care about quality."
Making his comments at the Singapore's information technology and commu... See more 在台灣某位研究質量控管的翻譯人網頁上，有以下這麼一段文字，請求其他翻譯人表示意見：
Apple (Nasdaq: AAPL) co-founder Steve Wozniak told attendees at an information technology conference in Singapore today that innovation is no longer the driving force for some top computer companies and that Apple and Microsoft (Nasdaq: MSFT) " don't really care about quality."
Making his comments at the Singapore's information technology and communication trade fair, CommunicaAsia 2005, Wozniak said "the computer industry per se has been a little bit harder to be innovative [in] for the last 20 years" and that the focus has shifted to volume sales.
"Almost a Monopoly"
"Now we have passed the stage where innovation is the driving factor for the companies," he commented to ChannelNewsAsia.com.
He said Apple today is "almost a monopoly," as is Microsoft "in its way," and "it's like those companies don't really care about quality. They are going to sell just as much as ever regardless of quality."
Wozniak continued, "Apple strives to be a leader in new technologies and that is one of the things they are really good at. But a lot of perfecting of the software hasn't followed a lot of rules that are obvious to people. There was a short period of time around the Macintosh when that was the case, but it's pretty much gone."
Keep It Simple...
When asked to give advice to entrepreneurs in the technology field, Wozniak said the best strategy is to keep a company small, lean and mean.
"The further along you've got on a product all by yourself, the better," he said. "One person is going to do the best job because one person is going to make sure that all the elements of the product fit together in the right best way."
這一串討論的主題為 "如何开始和发展自由翻译者事业"，我們不妨想想 Apple 公司是如何開始並發展 IT 事業的，然後看看 Steve Wozniak 如何看待他辛勞扶起的小小 IT 事業帝國，以之類比於一位自由翻譯者要創造他的事業應該會是怎樣的狀況。
請先看我給上文的回應：
Wozniak 這樣的說法不是有點 ironical 嗎？
MacIntosh 的愛用者所要的是什麼呢？從硬件結構來說，Apple 自始比 IBM & Co. 好多多；從軟件設計師的角度來看，在 Apple 機器上做軟件設計所能達到的 intuitivity 比在 IBM & Co. 上的更為簡易，Microsoft 的軟件既龐大複雜又缺直覺性，但問題在於市場：市場大部分已被次級品佔據，頂級品只有頂級的小部分市場。我倒非常懷疑 Apple 能夠更加擴張版圖。
"The best strategy is to keep a company small, lean and mean." 這幾乎已經是 "old student long talk" (老生長/常談)，由 Wozniak 口中再說出，怪怪的。莫非隨口說說？
最後一段的說法，讓我想起台灣譯界某名人對我說的：「你的團隊翻譯的構想，我試過了，行不通！一則，人人各有意見，只有批評，沒有貢獻；再則，稿酬少，怎麼分？」由於 "The further along you've got on a product all by yourself, the better." 和 "One person is going to make sure that all the elements of the product fit together in the right best way." 的說法，讓我覺得自己欠台灣譯界許多人一個道歉：我以往沒有解釋清楚，我說的並非幾個人七嘴八舌在單詞、單句、片語上打轉的翻譯討論團隊，而是要由 PM 負責質量管控的團隊，他得讓所有參與者知道整個譯案的主旨何在，細節由其他人實現，他負責以最好的方法，正確地將所有 elements 組成 quality product，這項工作其他人不得置喙；至於稿酬，那是由市場所決定，我還無法為所有的翻譯人提供對策－－翻譯社群無法覺醒，只能各顧各的，實在愛莫能助，從一個車庫造成 Apple 的 IT 事業帝國，這樣的想法我必須放棄。
從那報導看來，Wozniak 並沒有明確透露他的 Apple 將會是怎個走法，頂多挖苦了以量代質的適應市場策略而已。他的 Apple 會是那樣的走法嗎？I doubt. That would break the hearts of Apple lovers! 市場區隔早已成定局，Apple 在所佔的與 IBM & Co. 區隔的市場上已是 Monopoly，她沒有必要和 IBM & Co. 競爭什麼。
仔細分析起來，無論 Apple vs. IBM 或 Apple vs. Microsoft 都有相當清楚的市場區隔。為什麼有人愛用 Apple 而大多數人只能跟著 IBM 和 Microsoft 走呢？這背後的道理和翻譯市場的狀況一樣：從自由翻譯者的角度來看，你是要走低產量、高質量、高報償的路線呢？還是要走高產量、普通質量、積少成多的低報償路線呢？或者你上山下海樣樣行，可以隨機選取市場需求，順應著走兩者交雜的變化路線呢？這是每一個翻譯人各自尋找 "如何开始和发展自由翻译者事业" 解答時的重大課題：如何給自己找到適當的市場定位。
讓我用舊識 Per N. Döhler 在 "如何不成為翻譯人" 裡的一段言語做個總結吧："有的客戶需要的是低質量，有的客戶需要的是高質量，還有的客戶需要的是介於中間的任何質量。不同質量的市場都有翻譯人可以應付。到頭來，市場的選擇是我們翻譯人自己的決定。" (There are clients with low-quality needs, clients with top-quality needs, and the gamut in between. There are translators to accommodate all those markets. Over time, the choice is ours.)
[Edited at 2005-06-20 04:04] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lu Zou
Australia
Local time: 16:01
English to Chinese
+ ...
Kevin Yang wrote:
Hi, Lu Zou
Are you serious that you are a Mongolian doctor? I could not tell if you were just kidding. I was born in Huhhot, Inner Mongolia. My father was a pure blood Mongolian and married my mother who is from Jiangsu Province. She always calls herself "Princess Zhaojun".
Kevin
Kevin你好
我希望你也没有把我的话当真，如果真的有所冒犯，在此向你道歉。其实我对蒙古没有什么异见，记得学人种起源时得知中国人属蒙古人种。上中学时班里也有好多同学是蒙古族，他们以此为自豪，后来他们所在的县终于从黑龙江划归内蒙古了，他们有一种回归的感觉。
当我还是学生的时候，有多位老师把那些二百五医生叫蒙古医生，我未曾考证其来处，猜想与内蒙古牛羊多，兽医比较发达，当然兽医与人医是有很大差异的，因此不能按治牛羊的方法给人看病。我的叔叔就是一位兽医，他曾不时地要与我探讨医学问题，好象我们是同行似的。
| | | | ysun
United States
Local time: 01:01
English to Chinese
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| Lu Zou 是在跟我开玩笑，我想Kevin不会介意。 | Jun 20, 2005 |
Lu Zou wrote:
Kevin Yang wrote:
Hi, Lu Zou
Are you serious that you are a Mongolian doctor? I could not tell if you were just kidding. I was born in Huhhot, Inner Mongolia. My father was a pure blood Mongolian and married my mother who is from Jiangsu Province. She always calls herself "Princess Zhaojun".
Kevin
Kevin你好
我希望你也没有把我的话当真，如果真的有所冒犯，在此向你道歉。其实我对蒙古没有什么异见，记得学人种起源时得知中国人属蒙古人种。上中学时班里也有好多同学是蒙古族，他们以此为自豪，后来他们所在的县终于从黑龙江划归内蒙古了，他们有一种回归的感觉。
当我还是学生的时候，有多位老师把那些二百五医生叫蒙古医生，我未曾考证其来处，猜想与内蒙古牛羊多，兽医比较发达，当然兽医与人医是有很大差异的，因此不能按治牛羊的方法给人看病。我的叔叔就是一位兽医，他曾不时地要与我探讨医学问题，好象我们是同行似的。
Lu Zou 是在跟我开玩笑。我不认为Lu Zou 有对蒙古族同胞有任何不尊的意思。另一方面，我理解 Kevin 只是想证实一下Lu Zou 是否真是蒙古族人，是想认一个老乡，但并无指责 Lu Zou 的意思。以我对 Kevin 的了解，他绝不会把这句玩笑话放在心上。而且，从Kevin 讲述他母亲如“昭君出塞”一般从江苏嫁到蒙古的一段佳缘来看，他写此帖时的心情应是很高兴的。故我觉得 Lu Zou 不必太自责。
[Edited at 2005-06-20 04:09]
| | | | Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Taiwan
Local time: 14:01
English to Chinese
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Yueyin Sun wrote:
Lu Zou 是在跟我开玩笑，我想Kevin不会介意。
呵，Kevin 當然不會介意，而且我覺得 Kevin 那個帖子蠻幽默的。
歐洲和東亞分別來看，各自含有的民族不知凡幾，東南西北在古往今來的民族之間爭戰不計其數，但是各自形成了某種程度穩定的共同社會運作體系。以歐洲的情況來看，從一戰後的煤鋼協議經二戰後的北約、歐洲共同市場到歐洲聯盟，運作上雖然仍有許多問題 (尤其最近關於歐洲憲法在法荷公投的結果以及經費攤派問題相持不下)，但是那樣的運作體系的形成是保障共同安全和平的重要基礎。以東亞的情況來看，我們比較難得看到一致的和平目標，二戰前日本提出的 "大東亞共榮圈" 是以侵略戰爭做了結束，簡單地說就是 "缺乏誠意"。不過，近悅遠來的和平理想在民族之間依然存在的。這種和平的想望並不是 "打不過你，所以屈服於你" 或 "我有強權，所以教你讓步" 的思想，而是基於對他人的尊敬器重，知道共同經營穩定的生存環境對大家有利的深思。
中國境內的民族，可能比其他亞洲國家境內的民族都要來的更多。那些民族的融合雖然在歷史上未必盡皆經由合情合理的和平手段，但若現今的體系能夠調節成為使各民族、或應該說是各個人對別人和自己的權利都能有適度的互相尊重，那麼體系修正後所發揮的功效會讓尚未加入體系的民族願意合作。如同二戰前的日本那樣蠻橫地推動 "大東亞共榮圈" 的侵略行為就不會發生，而會像歐洲聯盟的凝聚一樣，經過和平協商達成各階段的融合步驟，形成漸趨穩定的互善互利社會運作體系。
歐洲民族間互相開玩笑說的笑話和用詞，有些比 "蒙古大夫" 嚴重多多，但大體上他們之間互相的了解比較徹底，所以不會因此產生芥蒂。在歐洲時曾經聽過一個笑話問答：
問：為什麼布魯塞爾的街樹上有那麼多薯條？
答：因為到布魯塞爾旅遊的法國人問了比利時人：你們說的到底是
哪種語言？
比利時人愛吃薯條，人手一包；聽法國人這一問，很不以為然；
因為這個地區說的是法語，法國人問得有輕蔑之意；所以順手
敲肘，筆劃了個 "去你的" 手勢－－薯條就飛到街樹上去了。
台灣要開放中國人到台灣來旅遊，希望不會有中國人問我們：你們說的到底是哪種語言？哈哈哈哈...！
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Kevin Yang
Local time: 23:01
Member (2003)
English to Chinese
+ ...
Lu Zou, Bill, Wenjer 和Yueyin,
大家好！无意间把大家的话题给叉开了，抱歉！的确是像Yueyin说的，我是出于一种渴望遇见老乡的兴奋，才试探性地求证。没想到那只是一句玩笑。我从小到现在，总是生活在充满民族和谐与冲突的环境里，汉族朋友把我当作汉族，蒙族朋友把我当作蒙族；定居美国，美国人把我当作中国人；回到中国，我又感到一种不名状的海外来客的怪异感觉。对于有意和无意的话，我早就习惯了，在某种程度上也木了，总喜欢把话朝着善意的方面理解。其实每个民族都有很多优秀的东西留给我们，偏见只会让我们看不见沙盘中的珍珠；而抱着欣赏的心态才能让我们看到美在其中。你们说，不是这样的吗？
Kevin
| | | | XiaoRan
Local time: 14:01
English to Chinese
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闲着无聊居然把本贴从头看到尾！
有趣有趣真有趣！
顺便问一句：炎炎夏日，各位还都在计算机前奋战吗？是否有工夫考虑到哪里避避暑？
此问题似乎应该另开一个帖子。好！我这就去新开一个帖子。大家千万不要引用我这个帖子哦。;)
| | | | Lu Zou
Australia
Local time: 16:01
English to Chinese
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Kevin Yang wrote:
Lu Zou, Bill, Wenjer 和Yueyin,
大家好！无意间把大家的话题给叉开了，抱歉！的确是像Yueyin说的，我是出于一种渴望遇见老乡的兴奋，才试探性地求证。没想到那只是一句玩笑。我从小到现在，总是生活在充满民族和谐与冲突的环境里，汉族朋友把我当作汉族，蒙族朋友把我当作蒙族；定居美国，美国人把我当作中国人；回到中国，我又感到一种不名状的海外来客的怪异感觉。对于有意和无意的话，我早就习惯了，在某种程度上也木了，总喜欢把话朝着善意的方面理解。其实每个民族都有很多优秀的东西留给我们，偏见只会让我们看不见沙盘中的珍珠；而抱着欣赏的心态才能让我们看到美在其中。你们说，不是这样的吗？
Kevin
Kevin兄
我知道你在开玩笑，所以我才在一开始时就说“我希望你也没有把我的话当真”。其实我们可以算个半个老乡，黑龙江与内蒙古如此之近，大庆还有个杜尔博特县，儿时许多的大庆与内蒙古没有什么区别，到处是草原和牛羊，这种生活给我留下了深刻印象，以致到北京工作后总是无法适应灰色的城墙和红色宫殿。最后到了新西兰好象才安稳下燥动的心。
同你一样，身居异乡，总会有种怪异的感觉，无论是在那里。自离家求学后，我到过西安，去过北京，在日本生活过两年，来新西兰也有10年。有时对别人的言语只有从好的善意的角度去理解，这样也不会把自己弄到死胡同里去。尤其难忘初到日本第一次面对一个日本兵（一个退役的关东军）时的心情，真是一言难尽。
得跑题了。再聊，愿能以聊交友，以聊自我安抚。
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