Machine translation of novels Thread poster: Philip Lees
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A Dutch publisher is planning to use AI to translate a 'limited number of books' into English.
The article doesn't use the word, but the implication is that this method would only be used for trash novels (what they refer to as "commercial" fiction). I suppose that for some genres where the sty... See more A Dutch publisher is planning to use AI to translate a 'limited number of books' into English.
The article doesn't use the word, but the implication is that this method would only be used for trash novels (what they refer to as "commercial" fiction). I suppose that for some genres where the style is highly formalised and there is already a huge corpus of material to train the AIs on, the current level of MT might be good enough to produce output that will satisfy many readers. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 18:58
Member (2020)
French to Dutch
+ ...
There will be a human editing phase. So from a translator's point of view this is less spectacular than it might seem to the non-translator public.
| | | | Joakim Braun 
Sweden
Local time: 18:58
German to Swedish
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Philip Lees wrote:
(...) the implication is that this method would only be used for trash novels (...).
If they aren't trash, they will be.
[Bearbeitet am 2024-11-05 09:19 GMT]
| | | | Johan Beyens
Belgium
Local time: 18:58
Member (2024)
English to Dutch
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As long as the trash sells, the publisher won't care
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expressisverbis
Portugal
Local time: 17:58
Member (2015)
English to Portuguese
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| 'To err is human, to forgive divine' | Nov 5, 2024 |
Perhaps this recent experience I had has nothing to do with the topic, but I'll share it nonetheless.
I agree with Lieven about there being a human review/editing, but in my case there wasn't and I'm tempted to contact the author.
A few months ago I bought a technical book whose author is a veterinary surgeon and whose biography I found impressive.
I stopped reading it because the spelling mistakes were so glaring and awful that I lost all desire to read it to the end.
In... See more Perhaps this recent experience I had has nothing to do with the topic, but I'll share it nonetheless.
I agree with Lieven about there being a human review/editing, but in my case there wasn't and I'm tempted to contact the author.
A few months ago I bought a technical book whose author is a veterinary surgeon and whose biography I found impressive.
I stopped reading it because the spelling mistakes were so glaring and awful that I lost all desire to read it to the end.
In addition to the spelling mistakes, the beginning of the book seems to be a mixture of European and Brazilian Portuguese.
In my humble opinion, it's a disgrace, even for the author of the book. I wonder if there really was any human control here... there certainly wasn't.
I really regretted buying this book, which wasn't expensive but wasn't cheap either.
There was no machine translation involved, I think it was more of a very badly written human experience. Machines make errors and so do humans.
'To err is human, to forgive divine'. God, by his nature is the only one who has the authority to forgive humans, so let's let Hm forgive the result of this book... ▲ Collapse
| | | | Philip Lees
Greece
Local time: 19:58
Greek to English
TOPIC STARTER | Who does the editing? | Nov 6, 2024 |
Lieven Malaise wrote:
There will be a human editing phase. So from a translator's point of view this is less spectacular than it might seem to the non-translator public.
But will the editor be a translator, who can refer to the original source text if necessary? Or just one of the publisher's regular editing staff?
I think the latter is more likely.
| | | | Philip Lees
Greece
Local time: 19:58
Greek to English
TOPIC STARTER
I was waiting to see if anybody else would make this suggestion, but nobody has yet, so ...
If it turns out that MT can produce translations of "commercial" fiction that are of a decent enough standard to satisfy their readership, then surely the next logical step is to get the AI to write new novels from scratch, and cut out the authors altogether.
I presume this is the kind of concern that prompted the Hollywood writers' strike last year.
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 18:58
Member (2020)
French to Dutch
+ ...
Philip Lees wrote:
If it turns out that MT can produce translations of "commercial" fiction that are of a decent enough standard to satisfy their readership, then surely the next logical step is to get the AI to write new novels from scratch, and cut out the authors altogether.
I wouldn't call it a next logical step, since translation and writing from scratch are 2 completely different things and translation without human editing is simply not something for the short term, since there are hallucinations and mistranslations. We really should stop thinking that AI will be capable to translate like humans before it feels and thinks like humans do.
That said AI will be able to write books, if fed with the necessary (and extensive) prompts. And there will be a market for it too. But will it cut out human authors? I don't think so. My guess is that human authors will be using AI more and more as a part of their process to produce their own work. Let's not forget that someone like Stephen King has been using semi-automated writing software since I believe two decades now. That's not AI, but it's basically the same: using whatever resources are available.
I think it's a mistake to think that it's AI against humanity. It will be humanity using (or trying to use) AI to the benefit of itself, from translators over authors to basically every human being doing whatever they do.
[Bijgewerkt op 2024-11-06 07:41 GMT]
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Philip Lees
Greece
Local time: 19:58
Greek to English
TOPIC STARTER | Who against whom? | Nov 6, 2024 |
Lieven Malaise wrote:
I think it's a mistake to think that it's AI against humanity. It will be humanity using (or trying to use) AI to the benefit of itself, from translators over authors to basically every human being doing whatever they do.
I don't think it's AI against humanity. AI is just a tool. I use AI on a regular basis, including MT as a way of speeding up a first rough draft translation, and consulting ChatGPT over coding problems.
The issue is not AI against humanity, but I think AI can be (ab)used as a weapon when it's commerce against creativity.
I think this is what the Hollywood writers were afraid of, and a similar thing is happening in the music industry.
I'm not afraid of AI, but I am afraid of human beings who believe that making as much profit as possible is the sole purpose of their existence.
| | | | | He who reads books will always rule... | Nov 6, 2024 |
Nice to know there is, however, a pool of readers who will not always rule. The very fact that they do read is a curiosity: there are so many other, more exciting options. Who are those commercial readers, I wonder. What are they being trained for by machine translations of novels?
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Philip Lees wrote:
Lieven Malaise wrote:
I think it's a mistake to think that it's AI against humanity. It will be humanity using (or trying to use) AI to the benefit of itself, from translators over authors to basically every human being doing whatever they do.
I don't think it's AI against humanity. AI is just a tool. I use AI on a regular basis, including MT as a way of speeding up a first rough draft translation, and consulting ChatGPT over coding problems.
The issue is not AI against humanity, but I think AI can be (ab)used as a weapon when it's commerce against creativity.
I think this is what the Hollywood writers were afraid of, and a similar thing is happening in the music industry.
I'm not afraid of AI, but I am afraid of human beings who believe that making as much profit as possible is the sole purpose of their existence.
I fully agree with you, Philip!
All this AI fuss makes many people forget that intelligence is always coming from humans and only humans; AI is just an algorithmic tool with serious problems:
• The multiple biases it “learned” from humans. AI has race biases, gender biases, and cultural biases.
• The copyright infringement in all types of media (images, video, writing, artwork) it “gained” from humans. By the way, check this out > https://www.aitrainingstatement.org/
• The confidentiality/privacy issues it “got” from how humans intend to use it.
So, the problem isn't AI itself, but humans using it.
| | | | | Interesting - related reporting from "The Neuron" / AI abd copywrites | Nov 27, 2024 |
Here is an excerpt from "The Neuron" (Nov. 26, 2024) relating to Philip Lees next step comment...food for thought.
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https://www.theneurondaily.com/p/hidden-ai-economy-exposed (the full version with images, embedded links and references)
Welcome, humans.
So y’know how AI companies are getting sued by authors and news companies for ... See more Here is an excerpt from "The Neuron" (Nov. 26, 2024) relating to Philip Lees next step comment...food for thought.
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https://www.theneurondaily.com/p/hidden-ai-economy-exposed (the full version with images, embedded links and references)
Welcome, humans.
So y’know how AI companies are getting sued by authors and news companies for copyright infringement? You can count on TV screenwriters soon joining that list…
It turns out, the subtitles from over 139K movies and TV shows (not the actual scripts themselves) were used in a dataset to train AI.
Needless to say, the screenwriters are PISSED. What, you thought they went on strike all last year for the looks?
Well congratulations, Hollywood, here’s your revenge: we used the AI Claude to create an entire feature screenplay based on the dramatic emails between Elon Musk and Sam Altman over the founding of OpenAI:
Just for fun, of course.
And because AI works can’t be copyrighted, ANYONE can use this script and go make a movie out of it. So if AI companies can take your publicly available writing and “transform” it into new content… why can’t you do the same to them? ▲ Collapse
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