| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Tiny jobs paid per word – demand a minimum fee. Seriously. Thread poster: Thomas Deschington (X)
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Thomas Deschington (X)
Poland
Local time: 14:58
English to Norwegian
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Lately, I have noticed that I am increasingly being offered jobs which agencies normally would pay a minimum fee for, but now are paid per word. We are talking about extremely low word counts, between 1 and 10 words sometimes, and these jobs are independent, separate jobs, i.e. they are not an addition to or an update of a recent project you have worked on. In addition to the translation work they require logging into a portal, downloading files and reference material, performing QA in a separat... See more Lately, I have noticed that I am increasingly being offered jobs which agencies normally would pay a minimum fee for, but now are paid per word. We are talking about extremely low word counts, between 1 and 10 words sometimes, and these jobs are independent, separate jobs, i.e. they are not an addition to or an update of a recent project you have worked on. In addition to the translation work they require logging into a portal, downloading files and reference material, performing QA in a separate program, zipping and uploading. Sometimes you need to email the PM for clarification, ask for more reference material, etc.
The additional unpaid work takes more time than the actual translation work.
Can I just say to those that accept these jobs, please stop doing it. You contribute to worse terms for independent translators (that is you too), as if the terms weren't bad enough already. Show some professional pride and solidarity with your fellow professional translators, and demand a minimum fee. Value your time!
Edit: Spelling
[Edited at 2021-10-13 21:51 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | I totally agree | Oct 13, 2021 |
And for sure these agencies apply a minimum fee...
| | | | Samuel Murray 
Netherlands
Local time: 14:58
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
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Thomas Deschington wrote:
Lately, I have noticed that I am increasingly being offering jobs which agencies normally would pay a minimum fee for, but now are paid per word. We are talking about extremely low word counts, between 1 and 10 words sometimes, and these jobs are independent, separate jobs, i.e. they are not an addition to or an update of a recent project you have worked on. In addition to the translation work they require logging into a portal, downloading files and reference material, performing QA in a separate program, zipping and uploading. Sometimes you need to email the PM for clarification, ask for more reference material, etc. The additional unpaid work takes more time than the actual translation work.
Yes. These jobs are usually for clients who sometimes also send very large jobs, so I tend to tolerate these short jobs as a way of keeping my foot in the door. But I have also told clients "no" when the amount of effort became too much for the amount of money earned. My approach to rates and effort is that I tolerate lower rates for agencies because agencies take care of things that would otherwise have taken up time, e.g. dealing with the client, figuring out what the client wants, distilling only the important files and information from what the client provided, ease of invoicing, etc. Once these things cease to be offered, there is no longer any need to charge agencies agency rates.
| | | | Tony Keily
Local time: 14:58
Italian to English
+ ...
| I even do them for free... | Oct 13, 2021 |
To date, I've always tolerated low word-counts from established customers who send me large volumes of work. If they want a sentence translated, I generally do it for free.
Where that isn't the case, I charge customers a half-hour minimum fee.
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Robert Forstag
United States
Local time: 08:58
Spanish to English
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| I don't get it | Oct 13, 2021 |
In the cases of really small jobs, it would make more sense for agencies to request that their regular contractors handle them - for a minimum fee, per-word free, or perhaps for no fee at all.
I would probably do such a job for free on a one-off basis for an agency that was giving me regular and substantial paid work.
It is really only a translator in such a circumstance who would feel an obligation to take on such an unattractive assignment.
Why such work... See more In the cases of really small jobs, it would make more sense for agencies to request that their regular contractors handle them - for a minimum fee, per-word free, or perhaps for no fee at all.
I would probably do such a job for free on a one-off basis for an agency that was giving me regular and substantial paid work.
It is really only a translator in such a circumstance who would feel an obligation to take on such an unattractive assignment.
Why such work is offered to newcomers who face the prospect of onboarding paperwork, an exchange of e-mails, and invoicing a job for 20 or 30 bucks is beyond me - especially since this creates extra work for the agency itself (i.e., in having to recruit and deal with new providers who have to somehow be sold on an unattractive job and then onboarded into the agency's system).
Dumb.
[Edited at 2021-10-13 11:13 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Adieu
Ukrainian to English
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And if the file count drops it to $10/file or less, I typically reject it anyway.
| | | | Mr. Satan (X)
English to Indonesian
| The market is messed up | Oct 13, 2021 |
Robert Forstag wrote:
Why such work is offered to newcomers who face the prospect of onboarding paperwork, an exchange of e-mails, and invoicing a job for 20 or 30 bucks is beyond me - especially since this creates extra work for the agency itself (i.e., in having to recruit and deal with new providers who have to somehow be sold on an unattractive job and then onboarded into the agency's system).
Why else do you think? It's because newcomers are expected to be cheap. For one, they're still trying to figure out what's the standard rates for the service they provide. I'm sure most of us have seen the 'how much should I charge for x service' kind of threads. And those that already knew the standard rates, would happily charge for lower rates as their first few jobs anyway to start off their career. Their "inexperience" could always be used as a legitimate excuse for offering the low rates, because nobody is really going to challenge it.
How do I know? Because it's exactly the things that I did when I first started freelancing. But even after being in the business for a while, I still can't charge at standard rates because some of my competitors are charging at 5-10% of it. It's disgusting but unfortunately, there's nothing to stop them. And while I won't go as low as them, I had to adjust my rates accordingly.
Oh and by the way, those so called outsourcers could be just freelancers hiring other freelancers, because the former bid for jobs in languages they don't even speak! And that explains a lot about the insultingly low rates we are seeing every now and then.
[Edited at 2021-10-13 12:37 GMT]
| | | | Jessica Noyes
United States
Local time: 08:58
Member
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Not in my case | Oct 13, 2021 |
I actually have two clients who send me quite a number of very small jobs, and both of them have a (different) easy-to-access type-on-line site. I sometimes do them immediately, although I request 24 hours notice even for five words.
We specifically agree that there would be no minimum, and that they would send me one P.O. a month
showing dates and words translated, all added up. Then I just invoice for this final amount.
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| Too small jobs | Oct 13, 2021 |
If these jobs are not big enough to justify the minimum page fee I let them know, but if they are still keen, then no point in not doing it.
| | | | | Exactly that IS ... | Oct 13, 2021 |
Thomas Deschington wrote:
The additional unpaid work takes more time than the actual translation work.
... the actual translation work (to research what "words" would fit). Perhaps they think you are a kind of translation machine working similar to the appliance shown below:
(I have to admit that the above machine, when applied to translate single words, would deliver dirty words only)
[Bearbeitet am 2021-10-13 14:26 GMT]
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Nothing is free as soon as I am liable for the outcome, whatever the time spent.
Surprisingly, I don't feel any sense of shame to earn obscene amounts of money for 3 minutes of work all inclusive when converted to an hourly rate.
Those who can't afford min fees are welcome to use free Internet resources. For free, not even for a eurodollar or two, which is already quasi-free. If they don't trust Google Translate or DeepL outcomes, it means they need human translator input tha... See more Nothing is free as soon as I am liable for the outcome, whatever the time spent.
Surprisingly, I don't feel any sense of shame to earn obscene amounts of money for 3 minutes of work all inclusive when converted to an hourly rate.
Those who can't afford min fees are welcome to use free Internet resources. For free, not even for a eurodollar or two, which is already quasi-free. If they don't trust Google Translate or DeepL outcomes, it means they need human translator input that adds value, and value is what we sell.
This is the theory.
In practice, agency clients sending me over 10 grand a year are entitled to what I call my "ultra-low min fee" of EUR10. Sometimes, I even waive it (and don't even register the job, so I save time too) when a few words were not included in a source text I handled or when there is no file fiddling, no research/ambiguity and no risk of coming up with an inadequate translation. I feel it's part of a sound pat-my-back-and-I'll-pat-yours business relationship.
Min fees are only normal and I don't apply them for solidarity or for raising awareness among translation buyers. Everybody can earn pocket change if so they wish. But seriously, where else would a service provider work for 1.64, income tax excluded?
Philippe ▲ Collapse
| | | | Thomas Deschington (X)
Poland
Local time: 14:58
English to Norwegian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I saw a job posting now, from a large agency, end client a major computer manufacturer. 0.5 source words, payment 0.06 euro. For the whole job.
Just unbelievable.
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Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 15:58
Member
English to Turkish
| A shout into the void | Oct 14, 2021 |
No offence, but urging those accepting such jobs to apply a minimum fee is like asking bottom feeders to decline any job that pays less than 0.07 EUR per word. You know it's never going to happen.
In my language pair, those kinds of jobs come from the low paying, first-come-first-served types of agencies and they hardly ever lead to bigger jobs. In the unlikely event they do, the agency immediately turns to the cheapest translator and assigns you the proofreading job, if you're lucky.
... See more No offence, but urging those accepting such jobs to apply a minimum fee is like asking bottom feeders to decline any job that pays less than 0.07 EUR per word. You know it's never going to happen.
In my language pair, those kinds of jobs come from the low paying, first-come-first-served types of agencies and they hardly ever lead to bigger jobs. In the unlikely event they do, the agency immediately turns to the cheapest translator and assigns you the proofreading job, if you're lucky.
So, it's totally up to you decline those jobs or, better yet, working with those kinds of agencies.
They never seem to bother me because of my supposedly 'high rates' (which might still be considered a pittance by those translating into English and working with those fabled boutique agencies). ▲ Collapse
| | | | Oksana Weiss
Germany
Local time: 14:58
Member (2011)
German to English
+ ...
| Machine-posting? | Oct 14, 2021 |
I have increasingly feeling that some jobs are produced by the machines, distributed by them, translated on the machine-operated platforms, automatically QA-ed, and finally read by them.
Thomas Deschington wrote:
I saw a job posting now, from a large agency, end client a major computer manufacturer. 0.5 source words, payment 0.06 euro. For the whole job.
Just unbelievable.
| | | | Adieu
Ukrainian to English
+ ...
| I've seen a few of those | Oct 14, 2021 |
...but they were always messed up purchase orders that meant to say 0.5 *hours*.
Or occasionally 5 hours.
Thomas Deschington wrote:
I saw a job posting now, from a large agency, end client a major computer manufacturer. 0.5 source words, payment 0.06 euro. For the whole job.
Just unbelievable.
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