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New Chinese Moderator Thread poster: Denyce Seow
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Angeline PhD 
China
Local time: 05:03
English to Chinese
+ ...
向姨，回信太强啦，哈哈。
chance wrote:
来信：
单身小妈眯：中秋快乐！哈哈！
我的回信：
你就乐吧，等你俩吵时，我再来恭喜！！！
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pf = 佩服？:)
Angeline_sh wrote:
向姨，回信太强啦，哈哈。
chance wrote:
来信：
单身小妈眯：中秋快乐！哈哈！
我的回信：
你就乐吧，等你俩吵时，我再来恭喜！！！
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Shang
China
Local time: 05:03
English to Chinese
事实越说越清，真理越辩越明。其实这里的辩论也就是发发牢骚斗斗嘴而已，大家没有利益冲突，只要不上纲上线惹人生气就好，天塌不下来，反正闲着也是闲着。要反驳别人的观点，你得提出令人信服的理由，不要动不动就乱扣帽子，现在可不是文革时候了。假如大家整天正襟危坐，那多没劲，跟小学生上课把手放在背后有啥区别。
pkchan wrote:
我的看法是﹕既然是在自由商業社會中的一個網站論壇，設下重重關卡，只會變成是一言堂，不能讓參予者暢所欲言。凡是參加論壇討論的都是有頭有面的人，身份是公開、透明的，而且是經過登記程序，才可在這論壇發言。多年來，憑著參予者的專業背景，與文字操手，論壇已形成一種自我完善的機制，偶然間有過火及出位的情況，很快在壇友互相尊重、提點下，便會恢復祥和的氣氛，或有人居間調解，雙方便能和好如初，如涉及執法者的爭辯，是比較復雜一點，但是，仍然是完全可以用同樣的機制去解決，無需用規則去終止別人的發言或有所懲治。在這個行業中，除了要有一定的專業水平外，還要有一定的公信力，認受程度，不可亂干亂來的，如在論壇上動粗，影響的只是自己的信譽與生意，誰會這樣愚蠢呢。因此，我的需要是一個寬鬆、包容、多元的論壇。相信﹕『他们现在更清楚』PK叔所說的『我们Chinese community 要的是什么了』。
[Edited at 2007-09-26 20:09]
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chance (X)
French to Chinese
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| 谁又遮蔽了我和文哲、建军的帖子？ | Sep 27, 2007 |
也不通知说明一声，不得不佩服这样管理员的辨别能力了，大概把我们都当成幼儿园的了，佩服！
说实话，新管理员东来和可能的新管理员Stone以上的帖子都比这样遮贴的水平高。
我做事从来光明磊落，也相信这里绝大多数同事的水平，希望遮贴者出来公开说明一下。
[Edited at 2007-09-27 07:46]
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chance (X)
French to Chinese
+ ...
刚才和两位现任管理员交换了意见，我不坚持他们公开说明什么了。同时感觉他们头脑清楚，很有水平。但是我想借这个机会向管理层提些意见和建议：
请不要把我们健康、人性的探讨，表明我们正在努力进步的帖子给封了。
给中文管理员们提个建议，相信你们自己的水平和处理能力，没必要事事报告，这样你们才给自己�... See more 刚才和两位现任管理员交换了意见，我不坚持他们公开说明什么了。同时感觉他们头脑清楚，很有水平。但是我想借这个机会向管理层提些意见和建议：
请不要把我们健康、人性的探讨，表明我们正在努力进步的帖子给封了。
给中文管理员们提个建议，相信你们自己的水平和处理能力，没必要事事报告，这样你们才给自己留有余地，而不必采取极端手段 (封贴、降格、不让人上论坛......等等惩罚)，那些极端手段只有在万不得已的情况下使用才能让人信服。这里是论坛，又不是监狱，如果你们认为稍有不合你们意的就封，还要这个论坛干嘛？PROZ只管收钱，然后大家压价竞争就是了。
不给人家充分发言的机会，人家就会耿耿于怀，一有机会就会再出来......如果有人过分坚持而且不讲理，那是他自己水平低的暴露，你们也应该相信大家会识别的，而不用封人家，封人家往往只会起到相反的作用。
PK和小袁、小尚讲的挺清楚，新管理员也都明白，我不懂为什么管理层就不能理解这样显而易见的道理？请相信我们这里绝大多数人的水平吧。
和一个人一样，管理层如果有充分的理由和自信，是没有必要采取极端手段的。
致周丹的玩笑：
现在我相信就是有奇迹你也不会考虑当管理员了 ▲ Collapse
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chance (X)
French to Chinese
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首先感谢你尊重我的意见不再给我群发信，使我对有些事情更加不清楚。
你昨天给我的公开信导致我们的帖子被封，又得感谢你。我本人昨天还没看到这封公开信，今天才有知情者转给我，我感谢他们对我的信任。
以下部分是对你那封未能公开的公开信的简短答复，希望你能理解。
说实话，在论坛里我是比较相信你的承受能力的，因为年龄和经�... See more 首先感谢你尊重我的意见不再给我群发信，使我对有些事情更加不清楚。
你昨天给我的公开信导致我们的帖子被封，又得感谢你。我本人昨天还没看到这封公开信，今天才有知情者转给我，我感谢他们对我的信任。
以下部分是对你那封未能公开的公开信的简短答复，希望你能理解。
说实话，在论坛里我是比较相信你的承受能力的，因为年龄和经历给了我们不少的锻炼和成熟机会。大家都可能有不足之处，但是这里许多其他人还相对年轻，我们在提出批评的时候，要考虑到对方的经历和承受能力，这是我想坚持的比较人性的一面。
我不完全在你的位置上，不能完全理解你的心情，你们之间的纠纷有一部分是发生在个人之间和Kudoz里，加上你们的帖子常常被封，我也很难进一步了解清楚，所以只能从大概原则上讲讲，有些地方不能完全讲到点子上，你也应该理解。看一个人的帖子，要看是否善意，不要以个别用词不当，或者人家开了个玩笑，由于不懂幽默而否定人家。这点我也建议管理层考虑。我觉得你是比较懂幽默的
不管怎么说，局外人东来都能懂我那些帖子的意思，你就不懂？
跟你说句实话，要不是你再次提起“井水不犯河水”这句话，我都忘了，居然又跟你在论坛开心地聊其它, 我自己都觉得可笑…… 要么是我健忘，要么是我功夫到家
好了，有些事情都过去了，没必要一一算账了，而且在你的坚持和努力下，对管理上的问题，大家也都有所认识，连管理层都说：“现在更清楚我们Chinese community 要的是什么了” (虽然还是要加个？)，建军也主动辞职了，你也不要不依不饶的好不好？
还是让我们谈点轻松愉快，能谈到一起的话题吧。 ▲ Collapse
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wherestip
United States
Local time: 16:03
Chinese to English
+ ...
| people and humor | Sep 27, 2007 |
chance,
真凑巧! 我在"唱唱歌" 那一栏贴了两首, 其中提到"年轻人" 和 humor.
你说的我很同意. 但我可要向大伙儿"声明": 那两首歌和这个题材可是两回事
[Edited at 2007-09-27 14:15]
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chance (X)
French to Chinese
+ ...
晚了，我正在琢磨呢，好在我的英语太破，只理解了一部分
wherestip wrote:
chance,
真凑巧! 我在"唱唱歌" 那一栏贴了两首, 其中提到"年轻人" 和 humor.
我可向大家"声明"那两首歌和这个题材可是两回事
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Shaunna (X)
United States
Local time: 17:03
English to Chinese
+ ...
绝对同意chance所言。
如果管理员相信自己的判断是公正的，就该相信公正的社区成员也会有同样的判断。封帖有时给人的感觉就象是要护短、遮丑什么的，有理都会变得没理。
比如Wenjer同 Jianjun之间，开始时Wenjer 每同我说起，我都只跟他说他的不是，希望他能多看到自己做得不那么合适的地方。结果说得太多，气得他也给我一句井水不犯河水或类似的话（s... See more 绝对同意chance所言。
如果管理员相信自己的判断是公正的，就该相信公正的社区成员也会有同样的判断。封帖有时给人的感觉就象是要护短、遮丑什么的，有理都会变得没理。
比如Wenjer同 Jianjun之间，开始时Wenjer 每同我说起，我都只跟他说他的不是，希望他能多看到自己做得不那么合适的地方。结果说得太多，气得他也给我一句井水不犯河水或类似的话（sorry，忘了原话了），直认了我是一边倒偏袒 jianjun。
可是后来看着论坛对 Wenjer 的帖子大封特封，怎么看怎么别扭，好象就是为了印证Wenjer所有对论坛的指责。越看我就不免对论坛的意见越多，何必呢。
And, if this post goes to the attention of any staff here who doesn't understand Chinese, please contact me. I will explain the content of this post to you. Thanks!
chance wrote:
给中文管理员们提个建议，相信你们自己的水平和处理能力，没必要事事报告，这样你们才给自己留有余地，而不必采取极端手段 (封贴、降格、不让人上论坛......等等惩罚)，那些极端手段只有在万不得已的情况下使用才能让人信服。这里是论坛，又不是监狱，如果你们认为稍有不合你们意的就封，还要这个论坛干嘛？PROZ只管收钱，然后大家压价竞争就是了。
不给人家充分发言的机会，人家就会耿耿于怀，一有机会就会再出来......如果有人过分坚持而且不讲理，那是他自己水平低的暴露，你们也应该相信大家会识别的，而不用封人家，封人家往往只会起到相反的作用。
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pkchan
United States
Local time: 17:03
Member (2006)
English to Chinese
+ ...
緬甸有安山素姬，法國有向姨素姬，都是值得同仁欽佩的。
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Shang
China
Local time: 05:03
English to Chinese
| 又一座Ruapehu火山 | Sep 27, 2007 |
一味堵塞只会使火山喷发得更迅猛。:D:D:D
pkchan wrote:
緬甸有安山素姬，法國有向姨素姬，都是值得同仁欽佩的。
[Edited at 2007-09-27 15:17]
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chance (X)
French to Chinese
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我真服了你了！你给我戴高帽，我就不好讲话了。就像那些贪官吃了人家的嘴软。不过现在的人都比较实惠，越吃嘴越硬，我们那些道德观都过时了
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pkchan
United States
Local time: 17:03
Member (2006)
English to Chinese
+ ...
有爭辯才有人氣，丁財兩旺。不管河水井水，有水好過無水。水來土淹，不是辦法，疏導才是上策。嘴軟心硬，堅守原則。緬甸開槍，這裡開窗，同是不得人心。
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Denyce Seow
Singapore
Local time: 05:03
Chinese to English
TOPIC STARTER | I have something to say... | Sep 27, 2007 |
Dear all,
It was me who hid some of chance’s, Jianjun’s and Wenjer’s postings in this thread.
I started this thread to share good news - the nomination of Donglai Lou as a new moderator for our community. However, this friendly exchange gradually opened up an unpleasant scene. As a result, I had no choice but to hide some postings. There were rules behind my action (the ones that talk against personal remarks in forums or departing from the posted topic) but ther... See more Dear all,
It was me who hid some of chance’s, Jianjun’s and Wenjer’s postings in this thread.
I started this thread to share good news - the nomination of Donglai Lou as a new moderator for our community. However, this friendly exchange gradually opened up an unpleasant scene. As a result, I had no choice but to hide some postings. There were rules behind my action (the ones that talk against personal remarks in forums or departing from the posted topic) but there was also a desire to stop this bickering that does not benefit anyone.
Most of you know that there have been some public disputes between a few site members these few months. Proz, the Chinese moderators and even some members mediated between the parties and talked to the individuals. There were also many support tickets and emails to read and reply. After everyone spent so much time and effort, the bickering and sarcasm are still going on. I believe I have respected 'freedom of speech', but things just went on to a stage where I saw a need to take action. Wenjer submitted a posting that was totally irrelevant to the topic and, in my opinion, offensive to some people. I did not vet this posting. As a result, I had to hide some earlier postings by Jianjun and chance to be fair to Wenjer. I believe Wenjer wrote his posting in reply to some comments in these postings.
For those of you who know me well, you should know that I did this as a last resort. It was a tough decision but one I had to make. As a Kudoz moderator, I don't squash questions when I can 'salvage' them. I help askers edit questions so they can stay on Kudoz. I want my colleagues to get as much help as possible without anyone (including me) having to break the rules. The same goes with the forum. I got complaints for hiding postings and I got support tickets complaining that I did not hide certain postings. There is always someone unhappy about something. I can only act according to my best judgment. My judgment might not be right all the time, but I definitely made it in goodwill. Hiding posts is not a personal act against anyone or an attempt to suppress freedom of speech. Most of the time it is done because rules are broken or things are getting out of hand.
I said earlier that now Proz has a better idea of what the Chinese community expects and we should hope that things will get better in future. First of all, I personally saw the efforts Proz put in to understand the Chinese community. Some recent events should tell you this, if you observe closely enough. Sure, Proz knows everyone wants freedom of speech. Proz respects that but only when it is within the scope of the site (http://www.proz.com/scope). Should we be allowed to talk about politics, religion, gender, etc.? It is freedom of speech, yes, but these topics are not within Proz's scope. It is the same with disputes between individuals. They really do not need to be discussed endlessly in public. Isn't it more in the interest of the two parties to settle this in private? Why is the whole community involved? Why is the friendly, professional atmosphere of the community affected? Secondly, how can things be better in the future when people are only interested in hanging on to the unhappy events in the past?
Denyce
[Edited at 2007-09-27 17:07] ▲ Collapse
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