This site uses cookies. Some of these cookies are essential to the operation of the site, while others help to improve your experience by providing insights into how the site is being used. For more information, please see the ProZ.com privacy policy.
Cookie settings
Costo di Caricamento
smuovermi nemmeno un millimetro
Aug 31, 2020 12:39
3 yrs ago
33 viewers *
Italian term

significando che il processo rientra nelle ipotesi di cui...

Italian to English Law/Patents Law (general)
Ai sensi dell'articolo...DISPONE che copia del decreto venga inviata al... perché venga indicata la data e..., significando che il processo rientra nelle ipotesi di cui all'articolo...

Mi crea qualche problema soprattutto questo "significando", come rendere al meglio l'intera frase? Grazie
Proposed translations (English)
3 meaning that the case /for trial / is one that falls within the scenario referred to
4 +1 specifying that the process refers to the scenario described at article...
4 -1 all stages of the procedure are pursuant to the
3 -1 meaning that the process conforms (conformed) with the scenario presumed (prescribed)
Change log

Aug 31, 2020 12:50: Ivana Giuliani changed "Language pair" from "Italian to French" to "Italian to English"

Discussion

Emmanuella Sep 1, 2020:
@ Era la mia interpretazione, lo stesso vale per 'falls within,' ecc.
Angie Garbarino Sep 1, 2020:
@Emmanuella Eh per quello dico che certe volte con certi testi è molto importante capire il testo sorgente. alla fine (trovando magari un miglior sinonimo) il GIP non fa altro che INFORMARE che il processo rientra nei casi di cui all'articolo ecc. bene ha fatto Ivana a utilizzare falls within the scope of... per la parte finale :)
Emmanuella Sep 1, 2020:
@ mrrafe - articolo - Now you understand why ''meaning' is a mistake
Ivana Giuliani (asker) Aug 31, 2020:
Ho già specificato chi dispone, cioè il GIP, ma pensavo fosse chiaro dal testo che è una persona. Grazie
Angie Garbarino Aug 31, 2020:
@ivana Ok scusa tu. Non avevo capito io.
Isabella Nanni Aug 31, 2020:
@mrrafe While civil disagreement is generally allowed, I find it bad manner to express it in a way that affects the results on an answer where we are competing, that is with a "disagree" vote on the suggested translation. Almost all fellow translators who have objected to my suggestions in other instances where they had also provided their solution, have done so by voting "neutral" or by posting a discussion entry. I call it proziquette.
mrrafe Aug 31, 2020:
Emmannuella, dispone I don't know but I assumed articolo
mrrafe Aug 31, 2020:
Emmannuella, dispone I don't know but I assumed articolo
Emmanuella Aug 31, 2020:
Grazie Ivana
Ivana Giuliani (asker) Aug 31, 2020:
Preliminary Investigations Judge
Emmanuella Aug 31, 2020:
@ mrrfe - Thanks,however the subject ofDISPONE is ?
mrrafe Aug 31, 2020:
Emmanuella "I was only asking" I'm afraid I've gotten lost in this page, but if you're asking about "pointing out that," no, point out means make an observation to someone such as a reader or court, or bring something to their attention. The factual background here supports a conclusion but it doesn't address someone.
Ivana Giuliani (asker) Aug 31, 2020:
Grazie Emmanuella.
Ivana Giuliani (asker) Aug 31, 2020:
Scusami non comprendo bene la tua domanda, ho chiesto un aiuto per l'intera frase, credo di essere stata molto chiara e sicuramente la parola significando mi creava più problemi, ma in molti l'abbiamo intesa nello stesso modo e dunque mi farò un'idea su questa parola grazie ai ai vostri interventi, ho solo aggiunto che non ero d'accordo con i colleghi sulle traduzione per il resto della frase.
Ivana Giuliani (asker) Aug 31, 2020:
Scusami non comprendo bene la tua domanda, ho chiesto un aiuto per l'intera frase, credo di essere stata molto chiara e sicuramente la parola significando mi creava più problemi, ma in molti l'abbiamo intesa nello stesso modo e dunque mi farò un'idea su questa parola grazie ai ai vostri interventi, ho solo aggiunto che non ero d'accordo con i colleghi sulle traduzione per il resto della frase.
Angie Garbarino Aug 31, 2020:
@Ivana quindi scegli di non tradurre significando? O non ho capito io, era la parola che ti creava problemi. Comunque grazie per averci fatto sapere.
Emmanuella Aug 31, 2020:
The subject DISPONE ...E SIGNIFICA CHE.La mai lettura
Emmanuella Aug 31, 2020:
@ Ivana - ok
mrrafe Aug 31, 2020:
Isabella Polite disagreement, with an explanation, is not bad manners, although admittedly that's only my individual morality speaking.

Uses of "meaning that": htps://ielts-simon.com/ielts-help-and-english-pr/2016/07/ielts-grammar-vocabulary-meaning-that.html\

In contrast, "specify" in EN does not mean "show" or "demonstrate," which is what the court is saying here; it means "state" some fact or detail. The statement must be made by a speaker or writer, not by an inanimate set of circumstances such as the party's action in meeting a deadline. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/specify
Ivana Giuliani (asker) Aug 31, 2020:
Personalmente non condiviso le proposte dei colleghi, io ho tradotto "falls within the scope of Art.../falls within the cases referred to in Art."
Emmanuella Aug 31, 2020:
Di cui all'articolo - referred to ? As provided?
Emmanuella Aug 31, 2020:
Pointing out that...?
mrrafe Aug 31, 2020:
Angie Understood, "redendo noto" is essentially what we're trying to put into EN. But "making known" would be too circuitous in EN. The court wouldn't say "this makes it known to us," and there's no indication apparent here that the court is addressing a controversy about whether the adversary on seeing the date should have realized the statute had been satisfied. More context could show that the adversary's state of knowledge was indeed the issue, but it seems very unlikely.
Angie Garbarino Aug 31, 2020:
Italian legalese Is very complicated, here it means precisando, specificando, facendo notare ecc
Emmanuella Aug 31, 2020:
@ mrrfe - I was only asking...
mrrafe Aug 31, 2020:
Angie Understood, "redendo noto" is essentially what we're trying to put into EN. But "making known" would be too circuitous in EN. The court wouldn't say "this makes it known to us," and there's no indication apparent here that the court is addressing a controversy about whether the adversary on seeing the date should have realized the statute had been satisfied. More context could show that the adversary's state of knowledge was indeed the issue, but it seems very unlikely.
Angie Garbarino Aug 31, 2020:
@Emmanuella Sì esatto..precisando, rendendo noto e non 'il che significa che. A volte si dimentica che è importante conoscere bene anche le sfumature del registro specifico della lingua di partenza :)
Emmanuella Aug 31, 2020:
Significando = precisando, rendendo noto e non 'il che significa che...'
Angie Garbarino Aug 31, 2020:
Sorry but Italian legalese is a language in it self, I know that significare is to mean, BUT NOT here. also the link posted refers to the "normal" meaning of significare which has nothing to do here.
Emmanuella Aug 31, 2020:
http://www.treccani.it/vocabolario/ricerca/significa/Sinonim...
Emmanuella Aug 31, 2020:
@ mrrafe - Thanks.
mrrafe Aug 31, 2020:
significando? As an EN(US) legal writer myself, I think "meaning" is significantly better than "making known," etc.. It is more concise, avoids the provocatively missing indirect object ("making it known" to whom - the court? the adversary?), and avoids less direct alternative verbs (showing, demonstrating, proving, implying). It says x = y, not x proves y, etc.
Emmanuella Aug 31, 2020:
Significando = making.it known?
Angie Garbarino Aug 31, 2020:
Ok per quello ti aiuteranno sicuramente i madrelingua inglese, buon lavoro
Ivana Giuliani (asker) Aug 31, 2020:
Sì grazie, ho compreso il significato, ma preferivo avere un consiglio su come renderlo al meglio, comunque ho sbagliato combinazione linguistica. Grazie
Angie Garbarino Aug 31, 2020:
significando qui: Solo legalese, in realtà ha lo stesso significato di rendere noto,

Proposed translations

19 hrs
Selected

meaning that the case /for trial / is one that falls within the scenario referred to

rienttare i/n : entry 5 Collins Sansoni > form part of; be included in; *fall within*.

Delighted to see others picking up on my dictionary-undriven translation of scenario - proposition no doubt mentally or digitally filed for future reference or, as my Irish office manager from Dublin used to quip, for 'future tense'.

The late posting of this suggestion may not necessarily mean similar adoption and rewording of my answer.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 heures (2020-09-01 08:24:09 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

rientrare i / in...
Reference:

http://www.proz.com/personal-glossaries/entry/3540261-processo-law-suit-action-case

Peer comment(s):
neutral Angie Garbarino : meaning no.
5 hrs
'entailing that' doesn't work vs. 'with the result that'..
Something went wrong...
3 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
+1
1 hr

specifying that the process refers to the scenario described at article...

"significare" in Italian "legalese" means "specify" "inform" "notify". In this specifi context I think "specify" fits better with the little context we have
Peer comment(s):
disagree mrrafe : The filing date doesn't specify anything; rather, it means or signifies. In other words, from the filing date it follows that the statutory prescription was satisfied.
2 mins
there's a whole piece of context missing after date (see the dots?), the date has nothing to do with the sentence starting with "signifying imo. And it's bad manner to disagree on the suggestion of a colleague who simply does not share yours
agree Angie Garbarino : Sì non ho osato inserire una intera frase, ma effettivamente specifying mi suona in testa da quando ho visto la domanda, e non ha niente a che fare co meaning
2 mins
grazie
agree tradu-grace
3 hrs
grazie
Something went wrong...
-1
2 hrs

all stages of the procedure are pursuant to the

In compliance with article.......of (Italy's legislation).........(person of power's denomination i.e. judge, notary, representative or public official, etc) orders that a copy of the written statement be handed over to.............and signed by (the person concerned), as proof that all stages of the procedure are pursuant to (number of article) and any slip notes thereof.

Peer comment(s):
neutral Emmanuella : manca significando
5 mins
Significando is implied in the translation I rendered. If something is pursuant to the law (pursuant to means 'in conformity with') it is obvious that significando is meant. Come on.
disagree mrrafe : "Are pursuant" is incorrect usage. It has to be "conform to [with]," or "have been [were] performed pursuant to." Even so, "performed in conformity with" would make the court's point more clearly. "Pursuant" addresses motivation more than the compliance
21 mins
"Pursuant to" is synonyms with "in compliance/in conformity with". But let's suppose that "pursuant to" didn't mean 'in compliance with'. The description in the source language is talking about hypothetical propositions and not factual applicability.
Something went wrong...
-1
48 mins

meaning that the process conforms (conformed) with the scenario presumed (prescribed)

"meaning that" is fine. This is how I would have written it, if I had created the ST

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2020-08-31 15:24:58 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

As Ivana points out, it's a matter of whether the events fell within the same scenario as the other hypotheses, not whether the statutory deadline was met. So she's correct that I should have said "fell (falls) within the scope of the scenario presumed [not prescribed]". But "meaning that" remains the best translation of "significando che," which seems to be the main problem here.

Be assured I can't imagine adding any further discussion.
Peer comment(s):
neutral philgoddard : There's too much missing from the sentence to make sense of it, but I don't think "significando" is "meaning".
5 mins
The timing "means." Saying it "signifies", "proves", etc. is needlessly indirect, because there's scarcely any further reasoning involved after stating the date."It is what it is," as the Americans say.
disagree Angie Garbarino : meaning no... I am not native in English so I do not dare to suggest an entire sentence but surely meaning is not correct. Not a matter of gerund, the verb is not correct per se,in this context it is rendendo noto,
29 mins
"Meaning" is correct because in this context it's a verb or gerund. It's like saying "The date was December 1. This means that the process conformed..." That would have been better but I thought inserting a period would be too radical an edit.
Something went wrong...
Close search
Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search