Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
creusé après la cuisson
English translation:
hollowed out after firing
Added to glossary by
Tony M
Apr 25, 2017 21:56
7 yrs ago
2 viewers *
French term
creuser après la cuisson
French to English
Art/Literary
Archaeology
ancient art
Hi again!
DOC: 1907 Museum catalog of ancient Egyptian mirrors. Catalog entry.
CONTEXT: 44036. Mirror. -- Bronze and enameled clay. [Pl. IV] TECHNIQUE. Le disque, fondu, a été doré. Il est difficile de dire si, dans le manche, le chapiteau faisait corps avec la poignée ou s'il était assemblé. On ne peut citer à l'appui aucun exemple, ce miroir à manche en céramique étant unique, à ma connaissance. Mais il y a toute raison de supposer que si le chapiteau était du type ordinaire des colonnettes GLYPH [Placeholder for a symbol], il devait faire corps avec sa tige. Le long canal dans lequel s'engage la soie de bronze ***a été creusé après la cuisson.*** L'assemblage, dans ces conditions, réclamait l'usage du mastic.
ATTEMPT: The long channel into which the bronze tang fits had been ***sunk/hollowed/dug out after baking.*** The assembly, under these conditions, called for the use of mastic.
ISSUE: what is the closest to the French meaning and still makes sense?
Thanks in advance!
DOC: 1907 Museum catalog of ancient Egyptian mirrors. Catalog entry.
CONTEXT: 44036. Mirror. -- Bronze and enameled clay. [Pl. IV] TECHNIQUE. Le disque, fondu, a été doré. Il est difficile de dire si, dans le manche, le chapiteau faisait corps avec la poignée ou s'il était assemblé. On ne peut citer à l'appui aucun exemple, ce miroir à manche en céramique étant unique, à ma connaissance. Mais il y a toute raison de supposer que si le chapiteau était du type ordinaire des colonnettes GLYPH [Placeholder for a symbol], il devait faire corps avec sa tige. Le long canal dans lequel s'engage la soie de bronze ***a été creusé après la cuisson.*** L'assemblage, dans ces conditions, réclamait l'usage du mastic.
ATTEMPT: The long channel into which the bronze tang fits had been ***sunk/hollowed/dug out after baking.*** The assembly, under these conditions, called for the use of mastic.
ISSUE: what is the closest to the French meaning and still makes sense?
Thanks in advance!
Proposed translations
(English)
| 3 +3 | hollowed out after firing |
Tony M
|
Change log
Apr 30, 2017 14:58: Tony M changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/2326420">angela3thomas's</a> old entry - "creuser après la cuisson"" to ""hollowed out after firing""
Proposed translations
+3
6 mins
French term (edited):
creusé après la cuisson
Selected
hollowed out after firing
or simply 'the ... was made after firing' — IOW, it wasn't initially moulded into the ceramic part.
'cuisson' for ceramics is usually 'firing'
Althout 'creuser' seems to invite 'hollwoed out', this seems a slightly unlikely technique to use on something as fragile and brittle as a ceramic. So in the absence of more detail, maybe just 'made' or 'created'? Is this a hole down the centre of the handle? In which case, I can't quite see why it is described as a 'channel'? Or is the handle made in 2 parts, with a hollow representing 'half a hole' in each section?
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Note added at 8 heures (2017-04-26 06:55:40 GMT)
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Oh, yes, I see now it is the latter explanation, which now makes a lot more sense to me.
'cuisson' for ceramics is usually 'firing'
Althout 'creuser' seems to invite 'hollwoed out', this seems a slightly unlikely technique to use on something as fragile and brittle as a ceramic. So in the absence of more detail, maybe just 'made' or 'created'? Is this a hole down the centre of the handle? In which case, I can't quite see why it is described as a 'channel'? Or is the handle made in 2 parts, with a hollow representing 'half a hole' in each section?
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Note added at 8 heures (2017-04-26 06:55:40 GMT)
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Oh, yes, I see now it is the latter explanation, which now makes a lot more sense to me.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
philgoddard
1 hr
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Thanks, Phil!
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| agree |
mrrafe
: or carved. And firing
1 hr
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Thanks, Mmrafe!
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| agree |
Christopher Crockett
: Envisioning "carving out" a deep slot in fired/hardened clay may be something of a stretch for the Modren Mind, but we have to remember that those 'gyptian guys were pretty skillful.
15 hrs
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Thanks, Christopher! Yes, between reading the question and answering, I'd forgotten the fact it was made in 2 halves, hence my doubt.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank you!"
Discussion
Walla:
https://img0.etsystatic.com/029/0/9436179/il_340x270.6037566...
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/3e/f8/66/3ef866299...
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/12/b8/af/12b8af6bc...
Being an extension of the mirror disk itself, the tang is no thicker than it is --hence the "hole" may be more precisely described as a "channel" or deep slot. Why Benediti believed that the slot was made after the clay was fired rather than given its shape when it was still plastic is one of those Mysteries of the East which us mere mortals may not know.
The mastic (a.k.a. arabic gum) is a thick resin which acts as a filler in the slot/hole/channel into which the tang is inserted and, when it dries, as a glue which holds it firmly and "permanently" in place.
"Permanently" is, of course, a relative term --after a few thousand years the mastic may dry out and shrink up so much that the tang might become somewhat loose.