| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17] > | 這一則新聞值得注意(Localization made progress at ProZ.com) Thread poster: Wenjer Leuschel (X)
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Wenjer Leuschel (X) 
Taiwan
Local time: 07:46
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chance wrote:
如果以后我在论坛出乱七八糟的英文贴，大家就可以知道是SYSTRAN的错，别找我算账 
做翻译，做到跟人比还不够，还得要跟机器比语文程度，那也真枉费出生为人了。
| | | | Jun Dai
China
Local time: 07:46
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| Xuchun
China
Local time: 07:46
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Angus Woo wrote:
從生意的角度來講，本地化會得不償失。我這樣說，可能有人會反對，不過姑且說說給大家參考。
從Ｆrank的市場策略來說，基本是要靠付費會員來支撐這個網站的。目前最低的也要７０美元一年，這在國內是很高的價碼了。如果把這裡辦成和內地的翻譯網站一樣，那麼就等於要和那些網站處於同一起跑線上。據我所知，似乎國內還沒有哪一個網站收７０美元會費一年可以成功的。
做市場推廣必須在自己的客戶群內開展，如果要歐洲車同日本Corolla以同樣的策略競爭是不切實際的。在任何市場，競爭都是無可避免的，但要考慮的是如果單純在價格上面競爭，那麼多數的歐洲車都將處於劣勢。翻譯也是ㄧ樣的。
如果把這裡的市場定位也確定在和內地同一個位置上，那麼在內地翻譯市場出現的低價低質就將不可避免地出現在這裡。結果就是儘管國內也有不錯的翻譯，雖然占全部翻譯群體的比例相對很小，可惜價格就是上不來。
第一、本地化吸引到的更多的是英文不太好的翻譯或者翻譯公司，對於英文稍好的翻譯來說是否本地化根本沒有多大的影響。本地化的結果，可能是吸引了更多英文不太靈光的不付費會員或者翻譯公司，這些人對於Frank來講，對其收入好處不大。而且這些人的競價，還最終會令越來越多的付費會員忘而卻步，沒有人會願意在競爭不到業務的時候，還繼續繳會費。
第二、這些人給出的價格遠比在座各位要低，詢價的時候，在客戶同翻譯彼此之間了解不多的前提下，一般都會傾向選擇低價。惡性循環也就從此開始了，這樣對各位也沒有多大好處。我自己試過好幾次給內地的翻譯執手尾，這些人雖然價格不高８０－１００元人民幣／千字，可膽子十分大，有的真的是一塌糊塗。甚至還試過有不誠實的內地翻譯，先翻譯成簡體字再變成繁體字，然後就慌稱是香港繁體蒙客戶，從用字到用法都跟香港的不一樣。估計這樣的情況，各位也碰到過。
大家難道沒有注意到嗎？這裡其實註冊了很多內地的翻譯，不少之所以不太活躍，個人認為很大程度上是被語言所困，不敢輕易發帖和回答問題。撤銷了這道門檻，那麼很快這裡就變成了另一個內地的翻譯網站。
撤銷了對語言的門檻，那麼價格和質量的門檻跟著也就消失了。接著消失的就是會費收入。
第三、那麼，本地化對吸引優質的客戶是否有幫助呢？照理說，如果優質客戶增加了，總還是會有人付高些的價格換取高質量的翻譯的。可個人認為答案依然是否定的。原因很簡單，內地現成的那麼多本地化翻譯網站，吸引了多少優質客戶呢？那些人的價格如何呢？前車之鑑，足以為戒。
第四、作為生意，應該盡量方便服務的對象，也就是客人，而不是提供服務的那些人。現在翻譯市場的優質客戶，基本上都是海外的，起碼目前來說，這些客戶對英文的熟悉程度遠遠超過中文。如果這裡本地化成中文，無異於給這些衣食父母當中的不少人出難題，有違生意之道。應該把這個地方做得更方便客戶，才是正確的方向，有了更多好客戶，自然就會有更多的付費會員。個人認為收費翻譯網站的客戶，其實不是翻譯，而是給翻譯們下單的那些人，這些人的存在決定了是否有付費的翻譯來註冊。翻譯市場基本上是個買方市場，因為這裡的單子比其他地方多，所以才有這麼多付費的會員，付費就是為了可以把錢賺回來，否則誰還會給錢。因此，在商言商，客戶永遠是排在第一位的。
這些都是個人意見，供大家參考。本地化對於將來的發展，是好處多還是壞處多，值得認真想一想。
Angus Woo的分析很深刻，不说空话。：）
反观支持本地化并表达要“无偿做贡献”的一些人，总是让人感觉是在借机达到为自己做广告的效果（不管是明说的还是遮遮掩掩的）。可悲！
| | | | Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Taiwan
Local time: 07:46
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Jun Dai wrote:
Da bin ich.刚来的,学习学习.
Grüß dich! Ich heiße dir Wilkommen.
Nimm dir Zeit. Halte dir die Augen auf und die Ohren steif.
Da sind genug Gelegenheiten, dich in das richtige Licht darzustellen.
Wenn die Zeit kommt, werden bestimmt Anfragen angetanzt vorbeikommen.
Bloße keine schlechte Angewohnheiten der einigen Übersetzern anzulernen.
[Edited at 2006-05-23 16:58]
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Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Taiwan
Local time: 07:46
English to Chinese
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TOPIC STARTER
Xuchun wrote:
Angus Woo的分析很深刻，不说空话。：）
反观支持本地化并表达要“无偿做贡献”的一些人，总是让人感觉是在借机达到为自己做广告的效果（不管是明说的还是遮遮掩掩的）。可悲！
Angus 的觀點有他的道理，但從未經檢驗的前提出發，得到的邏輯論證可能是錯誤的結論。他那些說法，前頭已經從反面論點討論過，不在贅述。
我倒有點納悶，有人可以為了幾個 BrowniZ 點數參與漢化工作，卻反對別人為了替自己做廣告參與漢化工作？大家來這個社群不是都為自己做了廣告嗎？
ProZ.com 經常發信給會員，請他們做好 Profile，好讓人們知道他們能做些什麼工作。由此看來，這個網站原本的用意就是請會員多多替自己廣告、多多替自己和別人製造工作機會。如果替自己廣告也是一種罪過，那麼我還挺納悶某些人來這個社群，除了找別人麻煩之外，到底是幹什麼的？
| | | | Xuchun
China
Local time: 07:46
English to Chinese
+ ...
Wenjer Leuschel wrote:
Angus 的觀點有他的道理，但從未經檢驗的前提出發，得到的邏輯論證可能是錯誤的結論。他那些說法，前頭已經從反面論點討論過，不在贅述。
我倒有點納悶，有人可以為了幾個 BrowniZ 點數參與漢化工作，卻反對別人為了替自己做廣告參與漢化工作？大家來這個社群不是都為自己做了廣告嗎？
ProZ.com 經常發信給會員，請他們做好 Profile，好讓人們知道他們能做些什麼工作。由此看來，這個網站原本的用意就是請會員多多替自己廣告、多多替自己和別人製造工作機會。如果替自己廣告也是一種罪過，那麼我還挺納悶某些人來這個社群，除了找別人麻煩之外，到底是幹什麼的？
谁对谁错的问题不是绝对的，不过个人倒觉得你不分情况引用达尔文理论，用在这里似乎不妥。
适当做广告是必要的，每个人的情况不同，如果是没有什么翻译经验的新手，无偿参加汉化这个网站也是不错的选择。但对于一个有几年或多年经验的翻译来说，也要求参加无偿汉化，只图宣传自己，值得吗？至少在我看来，翻译这个网站是项枯燥的活，即使我赞成此网站本地化也不愿白干。
当然如果真的认为网站本地化是件大好事，即使不利已，只要可以利人也甘愿做活雷锋的人，精神是很可嘉的，但我怀疑这种人是否存在。
| | | | Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Taiwan
Local time: 07:46
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Xuchun wrote:
没有绝对的对错
Wenjer Leuschel wrote:
Angus 的觀點有他的道理，但從未經檢驗的前提出發，得到的邏輯論證可能是錯誤的結論。他那些說法，前頭已經從反面論點討論過，不在贅述。
我倒有點納悶，有人可以為了幾個 BrowniZ 點數參與漢化工作，卻反對別人為了替自己做廣告參與漢化工作？大家來這個社群不是都為自己做了廣告嗎？
ProZ.com 經常發信給會員，請他們做好 Profile，好讓人們知道他們能做些什麼工作。由此看來，這個網站原本的用意就是請會員多多替自己廣告、多多替自己和別人製造工作機會。如果替自己廣告也是一種罪過，那麼我還挺納悶某些人來這個社群，除了找別人麻煩之外，到底是幹什麼的？
谁对谁错的问题不是绝对的，不过个人倒觉得你不分情况引用达尔文理论，用在这里似乎不妥。
适当做广告是必要的，每个人的情况不同，如果是没有什么翻译经验的新手，无偿参加汉化这个网站也是不错的选择。但对于一个有几年或多年经验的翻译来说，也要求参加无偿汉化，只图宣传自己，值得吗？至少在我看来，翻译这个网站是项枯燥的活，即使我赞成此网站本地化也不愿白干。
当然如果真的认为网站本地化是件大好事，即使不利已，只要可以利人也甘愿做活雷锋的人，精神是很可嘉的，但我怀疑这种人是否存在。
這兒有誰說了絕對的對錯嗎？"我倒有點納悶，有人可以為了幾個 BrowniZ 點數參與漢化工作，卻反對別人為了替自己做廣告參與漢化工作？大家來這個社群不是都為自己做了廣告嗎？" 這話有干絕對的對錯嗎？
如果對我的論理有意見，請具體指出 "不过个人倒觉得你不分情况引用达尔文理论，用在这里似乎不妥。" 到底哪些情況不同？你做的是一種情況，別人做的就不會是一種情況？這不是太過於絕對了嗎？
你懷疑利他的人不存在，並不表示絕對沒有那種人存在，更別說利他之外還能利己，何樂不為？如果只利己但不害他，即使不利他，別人為自己做廣告也要管著麼？
| | | | Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Taiwan
Local time: 07:46
English to Chinese
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TOPIC STARTER
做出利他不利己的事者，這種人很少，損人不利己者卻經常有之。我常常納悶，為何世間有那樣的人。但沒辦法，世間就是有那麼些那樣的人，你只能不讓他們的毛病發作而傷到你了。
能夠做到利己而不損人，那已經很不錯了。但如果能做到利己又利人，那更是不錯。
每個人都有權利有利於自己，更有權利保護自己的利益，也有權利懷疑別人只利於他自己�... See more 做出利他不利己的事者，這種人很少，損人不利己者卻經常有之。我常常納悶，為何世間有那樣的人。但沒辦法，世間就是有那麼些那樣的人，你只能不讓他們的毛病發作而傷到你了。
能夠做到利己而不損人，那已經很不錯了。但如果能做到利己又利人，那更是不錯。
每個人都有權利有利於自己，更有權利保護自己的利益，也有權利懷疑別人只利於他自己。但只要別人不會不利於其他人，不會不利於自己，懷疑別人只利於他自己，並不能為自己長一分利益。那種懷疑顯然是損己不利人。
損人不利者惹人厭，損己不利人者則是蠢。
能夠利己又能夠利人，這不是很好嗎？最不濟則利己不損人。有必要懷疑別人利己嗎？那可是人家的權利！人不自利，天誅地滅，說的是不知有利於自己者，註定受到天地的禍害。你我他，人人有權利為自己著想，所以 ProZ.com 提供給大家做廣告的機會，大家都有權利為自己做廣告。
己欲立而立人，己欲達而達人。這個網站的漢化工作，我做如是觀。如果有人不願意讓更多人受益而不希望漢化工作妥善完成，我倒希望他不要參與工作，以免礙事亂事。 ▲ Collapse
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wherestip
United States
Local time: 18:46
Chinese to English
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| Chance, Wenjer, and others | May 28, 2006 |
Here's a very recent BusinessWeek article about globalization. It also happens to be the strategic direction adopted by the company I work for--not surprising because of its scale and its known leadership in the industry.
There may be some interesting parallels to localization that I touched on before. Not necessarily music to the ears, but definitely an imminent trend that can't be ignored.
P. S. The link doesn't seem to work too well, so I've pasted the whole artic... See more Here's a very recent BusinessWeek article about globalization. It also happens to be the strategic direction adopted by the company I work for--not surprising because of its scale and its known leadership in the industry.
There may be some interesting parallels to localization that I touched on before. Not necessarily music to the ears, but definitely an imminent trend that can't be ignored.
P. S. The link doesn't seem to work too well, so I've pasted the whole article below
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_23/b3987093.htm
Big Blue Shift
IBM is reorganizing its global workforce to lower costs without skimping on service
IBM's annual investor briefing is typically held in a bland hotel conference room in New York. But this year look for something radically different. It's kicking off the event 10,000 miles away at Bangalore Palace, a sprawling Colonial-era edifice modeled on Britain's Windsor Castle, in the heart of India's Silicon Valley. Speakers at the June 6-7 extravaganza will include Indian President A.P.J. Abdul Kalam and Diya Mirza, Bollywood's answer to Lindsay Lohan, who will emcee an event attended by 10,000 IBMers. Advertisement
What's all the hoopla about? IBM is sending the message that India and the rest of Asia are crucial to its future -- as fast-growing markets and as pools of low-cost talent that IBM must tap to fend off pesky Indian competitors who are biting into its market share. IBM's (IBM ) India staff jumped from 9,000 to 43,000 in the past 2 1/2 years, making it No. 2 behind the U.S.
But cheap labor is just part of the story. For IBM, globalization is about reorganizing its 200,000-strong services workforce along skill lines, not just geography, and about coordinating operations worldwide to deliver services that are better as well as cheaper. In essence, it's all about revamping the people supply chain.
Yes, this big shift is about Bangalore, but it's also about Tulsa, Okla., where modestly paid accounting specialists process paperwork for clients who want the tasks done in the U.S.; Boulder, Colo., where hard-to-find specialists fix problems in computers all over the world; and Yorktown Heights, N.Y., where scientists in IBM's unrivaled research labs dream up ways to take some of the labor out of tech services. "Some people think the world is centered in India, and that's it," says Senior Vice-President Robert W. Moffat Jr., who is in charge of the makeover. "Globalization is more than that. Our customers need us to put the right skills in the right place at the right time."
IBM has even devised math formulas to tell it just who should be plucked from those various centers to work on any given contract. Researchers came up with a standard way of describing skills within the company and algorithms for optimizing the use of individual employees. That work has been put to use in a project, Professional Marketplace, which helps consultants put together teams from among 70,000 IBM résumés.
Last July, Moffat was tapped to be the crucial player in remaking a large piece of the workforce. He had spent the previous four years wringing out $5 billion per year in efficiencies from IBM's manufacturing supply chain. Now he's on the spot to do the same with its people. The 27-year IBM veteran has made two presentations to IBM's directors and is to speak in Bangalore.
The transformation that's sweeping IBM could soon be showing up at companies everywhere. In the 20th century, IBM was a pioneer of the multinational business model. It created mini-IBMs in each country -- complete with their own administration, manufacturing, and service operations. But that approach is too top-heavy at a time when lean Indian tech companies and Chinese manufacturers produce high-quality goods and services for a fraction of what the multinationals charge. Now IBM is pioneering what it calls globally integrated operations. IBM aims to lower its costs and at the same time provide superior service so it can be more competitive, win more deals, and drive revenue and profit growth.
Here's how the thinking goes: In tech services, which account for half of IBM's $91 billion in annual revenues, low-cost labor is necessary but not sufficient. The company needs to bunch employees in competency centers (collections of people with specific skills) that are distributed around the world. That way it can take advantage of the low costs in some places, and in others have highly skilled employees in close proximity to customers. Rather than each country's business unit having its own workforce entirely, many people are drawn from the competency centers.
Here's just one example of how that can pay off: In the past, many software installations for clients' PCs were done for each machine individually by an IT employee who walked around from one machine to the next. The cost: about $70 per PC. Now, IBM has 200 people in Toronto running a software installation factory for clients worldwide. They assemble packages that are delivered to machines over the Net. The cost: 20 cents per PC.
"A COMPELLING THREAT"
The computing giant doesn't have the luxury of making these changes gradually. Indian tech companies, with their low costs and high quality, have rewritten the rules of competition in the $650 billion tech-services industry. Under this assault, IBM's services revenues declined 1.2% in the first quarter, to $11.6 billion. IBM and other Western tech-services giants are being forced to realign their workforces. "After years of putting their head in the sand, they're seeing it as a compelling threat," says Nandan M. Nilekani, chief executive of Infosys Technologies Ltd., one of the top Indian players. "They're acknowledging the megatrends but not moving fast enough."
It's too early to call the endgame. IBM and other Western outfits have deep ties with customers and vast resources of talent, so analysts expect the competition to be fierce. Most anticipate that IBM and Accenture (ACN ) will be among the winners, along with a handful of Indian companies. But they warn that IBM should take nothing for granted. "They still have a huge way to go to be cost- and price-competitive," says analyst Paul Roehrig of market researcher Forrester Research (FORR ).
SKEPTICS
IBM's Moffat suffers no illusions about the difficulty of the path ahead. Even after years of reinvention at IBM, many of its people are set in their ways. Earlier this year he found out just how challenging it will be to win over hearts and minds. More than 10% of the 450 managers he invited to a three-day organizing meeting for his globalization initiative in January were no-shows.
Moffat is no screamer, but he made clear his disappointment when he took the stage in the ballroom of Disney's Yacht and Beach Club Resorts in Orlando on Jan. 30. About three minutes into his remarks, the athletic 49-year-old pointedly told the crowd that 50 executives had stood him up. "You could have heard a pin drop," recalls George Welleck, a vice-president who now leads 1,100 engineers specializing in data-center software, one of the new global competencies.
Welleck had been skeptical, too. A 25-year IBM veteran, he suffered through his share of corporate reorganizations that really didn't change things. But he approved of Moffat's strategy after hearing it laid out, and he hoped this re-org would be different. After the briefing, Welleck met with a dozen managers assigned to work for him. Right off, several Europeans told him they wanted out. They figured U.S. executives would run things and they would be left on the fringe. "I promised I will globalize," Welleck says. The Europeans agreed to stick with him.
To understand IBM-style globalization, consider the company's operations in Boulder. They're centered at the foot of the Rockies in earth-brown buildings used from the 1960s to the 1990s for manufacturing data storage devices. The assembly lines are long gone, but the workforce of 6,200 is still near its peak. Many of them work in data centers, which serve 100 customers, and a recovery facility for clients whose computers are knocked out of service.
The most important venues are two nearly identical global command centers. These are large rooms similar to NASA's Mission Control. Engineers sit along tiers of tables monitoring computer screens for signs that machines at 426 data centers scattered worldwide are experiencing glitches. On the front wall are huge electronic displays that show CNN, national and world weather maps, even a globe pinpointing earthquakes. If something happens anywhere in the world that could interfere with the flow of bits and bytes, these folks are likely to know. They call on experts within the Boulder office or in competency centers worldwide to help set things right.
IBM's global shift makes it possible for many of the people who manage machines and software in data centers to be separated from the centers themselves. That means it can tap low-cost talent in India, where it operates a twin to the Boulder facility, for much of this kind of work. Some of the data centers are interchangeable, so if India has issues, IBM can route computing jobs and calls for expertise elsewhere. That's what happened on Apr. 12, when the death of beloved Indian actor Rajkumar sparked riots and office closings in Bangalore. To avoid interruptions, IBM quickly shifted data center management duties to Boulder and help-desk work to South Africa. "I bet the Indian companies had some frustrated customers that day," says Arvinder Surdhar, the IBM vice-president in charge of end-user support.
Eventually, the Indians will build big networks of global delivery hubs, but they still won't match IBM's scientific research capabilities. That's why IBM has brought together its global services and research organizations to bring automation to bear on services. Fifteen projects are under way and two of them are already being piloted in Bangalore. One is a system for turning each kind of service into a series of standardized processes. The tasks are broken into pieces and moved electronically between people who perform them. "It's a virtual factory," says Mahmoud Naghshineh, director of service delivery for IBM Research. If it works, the company believes automation will allow it to slash more than 10% from overall outsourcing costs, giving it an advantage that others can't easily match.
For some highly skilled employees, the globalization initiative offers a chance to raise their profile in the company. One group of 10 software programmers got a jump on Moffat by forming a volunteer global collaboration network so they could help each other out with projects. Employees such as these, with rare skills and the flexibility to use them in new ways, can practically write their own career tickets.
But many others face the prospect of losing their jobs to low-cost rivals in developing nations. Last year more than 15,000 IBMers left in a cost-reduction program. Tom Kennett, a software specialist whom IBM cut loose last year, says he was forced to train his Indian replacement. "They came and said your job is being outsourced and you'll train your replacement. If you don't, you won't get the severance package," says Kennett.
There's no turning back for IBM. Moffat says the globalization effort is still in the early stages, but ultimately he hopes to provide about one-third of IBM's ongoing earnings-per-share growth through productivity improvements. Already, operating margins in the services business rose by 2.5 points, to 10.3% in the first quarter. "I like our hand," Moffat says.
Investors aren't showing much interest yet. IBM's stock price hasn't budged all year. Longer term, though, IBM could start to look more attractive. Analyst Cindy Shaw of equity researcher Moors & Cabot expects IBM's declining pension expenses and savings from globalization to boost earnings growth over the next two years. "Investors will be watching earnings growth. If they see that, they'll get excited," she says.
[Edited at 2006-05-28 20:00] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Taiwan
Local time: 07:46
English to Chinese
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TOPIC STARTER | 謝謝你，Stephen! | May 29, 2006 |
你轉貼的這篇文章相當深入，閱讀的人可以從各種不同的角度來理解 IBM 所進行的方案。對於那些害怕改變的人而言，所看到的可能多是負面；但對技術與商場本質有理解的人，他們會看到改變的必要。
Here's just one example of how that can pay off: In the past, many software installations for clients' PCs were done for each machine individually by an IT employee who walked around from one machine to the next. The cost: about $70 per PC. Now, IBM has 200 people in Toronto running a software installation factory for clients worldwide. They assemble packages that are delivered to machines over the Net. The cost: 20 cents per PC.
$70 和 $0.20 的對比，受益的是誰呢？只有 IBM 和它的股東們？這個問題必須深思。想想當年 PC 剛出爐時的價錢有多少人買得起？如今絕少買不起的人！生產技術和生產方式的改進所造成的成本降低，必定會帶動總體經濟的成長，因為降低的成本使得既便宜又良好的產品讓更多人受惠。這是從宏觀經濟來看。
總體經濟的增進當然也會造成微觀的變化，基本上由於策略的改變，更多的人力獲得釋放，原本擔任無聊任務的人員被迫發揮創造力，以便因應就業市場的需求，甚或創造出新的事業和市場。以我小時候的台灣和今日的台灣做比較，當時的耕地面積大，物資卻相當地匱乏；這當然不能完全歸疚於蔣介石的反攻大陸生聚備戰所需而造成的物資輸出所致，主要還是由於生產技術與方式的落後；其後的一些經濟發展政策，使得農業勞力被釋放出來，使得勞力能投入工業發展或更高層次的農業技術研究，由此創造出 careers 的人多不勝數，而他們的 careers 也帶動了總體經濟的發展。
以我對翻譯事業的理解，我不認為低價競爭會影響整體市場的健全，反倒會使得質量與成本之間的關係更加透明化，這對那些願意長進的翻譯者非常有幫助，但對買空賣空的中間剝削者則非常不利，他們當然會感到改變的壓力而怨恨促成市場透明化者。就政治層面來說，古代的人比較容易操弄，主要是由於缺乏知識和信息 (從事正確思想的必要工具和材料)，現代人可聰明多了，不會是任何人說了算數，而會尋找印證，因此想透過外國語文來遮蔽市場簡直不可能。
底下的段落還有許多可以做思想，但今天先說到這裡，有空再挑出某些段落說說我的看法，讓同仁指正可能發生在我身上的錯誤。
| | | | chance (X)
French to Chinese
+ ...
| Thanks wherestip, | May 29, 2006 |
文章讲的大部分是事实。关键在尾声："Investors will be watching earnings growth. If they see that, they'll get excited," 。IBM 共有多少大股东？如果追求股东利益，这是必然选择。
爱尔兰是欧洲硅谷，GOOGLE欧洲总部也设在那里，我希望能有机会去那里看看。但爱尔兰也是欧洲贫富差别最大的国家。就看追求什么了。
印度公司在PROZ以4-6分的价格拿合同，再以更低价格分给中国译者，这样既让美国客户找到低价，又发展了印度的翻译业，中国译者也有饭吃。不过印度公司来找我，我一般不费时答复了，这也是事实
[Edited at 2006-05-29 10:28]
| | | | wherestip
United States
Local time: 18:46
Chinese to English
+ ...
| the "reader comments" at the end is even a more interesting read than the article itself | May 29, 2006 |
Wenjer Leuschel wrote:
你轉貼的這篇文章相當深入，閱讀的人可以從各種不同的角度來理解 IBM 所進行的方案。對於那些害怕改變的人而言，所看到的可能多是負面；但對技術與商場本質有理解的人，他們會看到改變的必要。
chance wrote:
文章讲的大部分是事实。关键在尾声："Investors will be watching earnings growth. If they see that, they'll get excited," 。IBM 共有多少大股东？如果追求股东利益，这是必然选择。
...try clicking on the link (hopefully it'll work for you), and then click on "see all comments" to see the whole shebang.
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_23/b3987093.htm
Tons of reader comments, and still building, as this is a new recent article. Don't forget to click on "next/previous page" to read them all.
The sentiments are mixed with both positive and negative views, just like what we see here towards "localization" -- not a coincident, IMO. I also get a chuckle out of reading praises mixed in with some good old fashioned bashing.
BTW, I'm not trying to drag out the discussion of an issue that has pretty much been decided upon. I just find these "megatrends", as someone termed them in the article , fascinating and thought-provoking.
[Edited at 2006-05-29 13:46]
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Angus Woo
Local time: 07:46
Chinese to English
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| 這裡的管理人員同作翻譯的想法可能不完全一致 | May 29, 2006 |
chance wrote:
文章讲的大部分是事实。关键在尾声："Investors will be watching earnings growth. If they see that, they'll get excited," 。IBM 共有多少大股东？如果追求股东利益，这是必然选择。
爱尔兰是欧洲硅谷，GOOGLE欧洲总部也设在那里，我希望能有机会去那里看看。但爱尔兰也是欧洲贫富差别最大的国家。就看追求什么了。
印度公司在PROZ以4-6分的价格拿合同，再以更低价格分给中国译者，这样既让美国客户找到低价，又发展了印度的翻译业，中国译者也有饭吃。不过印度公司来找我，我一般不费时答复了，这也是事实 [Edited at 2006-05-29 10:28]
不錯, 相信不少前輩們遇到這樣的業務諮詢, 都是這樣處理的.
從目前看, 無論是否願意, 這裡繼續內地化的趨勢似乎不可避免. 作為這裡的翻譯們, 尤其是生活指數高的地區那些, 恐怕很快在面對國內翻譯的2分錢競價時, 都會感到望塵莫及.
不過, 我個人相信這裡管理層很快就被迫要考慮的, 卻是在那種情況下, 還會有多少人願意交會費呢?
| | | | chance (X)
French to Chinese
+ ...
我想顺便了解一个问题，IBM的管理层、工程师直到下面的技工是否部分收入是以stock option实现的，我指的不是自愿认购，而是硬性规定那种？前几年这里的start-up都是以这种形式。
如是，占工资的百分比？如果由于全球化而失业，是否仍有股权？谢谢。
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Angus Woo wrote:
從目前看, 無論是否願意, 這裡繼續內地化的趨勢似乎不可避免. 作為這裡的翻譯們, 尤其是生活指數高的地區那些, 恐怕很快在面對國內翻譯的2分錢競價時, 都會感到望塵莫及.
关于以低价竞争的问题，我也一直有考虑。国外的翻译机会实在很多，在本国找到的客户足以应付生活开销，其实不会全靠 Proz.com 争工作。比如美国的一些翻译公司只在当地找翻译者，还有些公司只雇佣美国人做翻译。
从某种程度上讲，国内低价不会使国外的翻译处于劣势（尽管价格落差很大），倒是会给中国本土的译者带来困难，因为内地的翻译想在国际市场找工作，只能通过 Proz.com 等这些国际渠道开展业务。
最近一两年来到 Proz.com 注册的内地译者，包括本人在内，都已晚了三秋，早个四、五年，境况也会好很多。如今本来是僧多粥少，却再来些挂单的，岂不是要吃倒这座庙？
不過, 我個人相信這裡管理層很快就被迫要考慮的, 卻是在那種情況下, 還會有多少人願意交會費呢?
对于 Proz.com，现在是形势一片大好之际。很多人看到这里热火朝天，毫不迟疑地将会费交上，要是找不到工作，退款咋办？
他的管理者很聪明，因此大家看，他在蜕变呢！依我看，将来 Proz.com 将从工作市场网站转型为翻译服务网站。你做翻译，它提供后勤服务。你可以从它这里买到折扣的软件、域名、网站空间。。。。至于工作嘛！大家得靠自己的本事去找喽！
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