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句子第一个词用过去分词
Thread poster: redred
ysun
ysun  Identity Verified
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病句分析 Mar 24, 2013

Phil Hand wrote:

狗追猫,跑得其毛都被风吹光了。

之所以说这句话是病句,就是因为“其”的指代对象不明确。后半句中“跑”的行为主体不明确,导致“其”字的含义模棱两可。显然,狗和猫都在“跑”。那么,“其”既可以指狗,也可以指猫,也可以同时指两者。如果前后两句的行为主体是一致的,就应该说“狗追猫,追得如何如何”。例如,“狗追猫,追得筋疲力尽”、“狗追猫,追得猫上窜下跳”,等等。如果前后两句的行为主体不一致,就应该说“狗追猫,猫如何如何”。例如,“狗追猫,猫吓得落荒而逃”。

如果你想说狗和/或猫的“毛都被风吹光了”,就应该明确说明谁的毛都被风吹光了,避免使用那个模棱两可的“其”字。


 
wherestip
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病句分析 Mar 24, 2013

ysun wrote:

Phil Hand wrote:

狗追猫,跑得其毛都被风吹光了。

之所以说这句话是病句,就是因为“其”的指代对象不明确。后半句中“跑”的行为主体不明确,导致“其”字的含义模棱两可。显然,狗和猫都在“跑”。那么,“其”既可以指狗,也可以指猫,也可以同时指两者。如果前后两句的行为主体是一致的,就应该说“狗追猫,追得如何如何”。例如,“狗追猫,追得筋疲力尽”、“狗追猫,追得猫上窜下跳”,等等。如果前后两句的行为主体不一致,就应该说“狗追猫,猫如何如何”。例如,“狗追猫,猫吓得落荒而逃”。

如果你想说狗和/或猫的“毛都被风吹光了”,就应该明确说明谁的毛都被风吹光了,避免使用那个模棱两可的“其”字。


对,分析得很好。


 
Phil Hand
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语境范围 Mar 24, 2013

ysun wrote:

之所以说这句话是病句,就是因为“其”的指代对象不明确。后半句中“跑”的行为主体不明确,导致“其”字的含义模棱两可。显然,狗和猫都在“跑”。那么,“其”既可以指狗,也可以指猫,也可以同时指两者。如果前后两句的行为主体是一致的,就应该说“狗追猫,追得如何如何”。例如,“狗追猫,追得筋疲力尽”、“狗追猫,追得猫上窜下跳”,等等。如果前后两句的行为主体不一致,就应该说“狗追猫,猫如何如何”。例如,“狗追猫,猫吓得落荒而逃”。

如果你想说狗和/或猫的“毛都被风吹光了”,就应该明确说明谁的毛都被风吹光了,避免使用那个模棱两可的“其”字。


恩,谢谢。

我在文章中碰到的那句话是这么一个情况:单独读一句话,“其”的意思不明确,我把这一句话抽出来给别人看,结果可能是出于wherestip说的考量,他以为“其”应该是指前半句的主语。实际上,沿着整篇论文的思维来读,“其”很显然是指前半句的宾语。那就是说,在一句话的范围内,它不明确,但在语篇层上,就明确了。

大概是这样子:

齐国的部队小,军事能力有限。秦国跟齐国打起战来,其必然要被毁灭。所以齐国非常重视用外交手段维持天下和平。

这个“其”可不可取?


 
wherestip
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Borderline Mar 24, 2013

Phil Hand wrote:

秦国跟齐国打起战来,其必然要被毁灭。



For a stand-alone sentence as such, the character 其 typically would refer to 秦 as the potential loser. But like you said, put into context, it actually refers to 齐 instead.

IMO, usage of 其 like in this example is borderline, meaning it falls between poor to acceptable. I would suggest to the writer: why not just replace 其 with 齐 and be exact?

If you run into something like this, definitely go by the context like you said. But if you're writing your own composition, try to avoid it; because it is confusing to the reader to say the least. To figure out whom or which side 其 refers to, the average reader typically would have to do a double take of the whole passage. Even if the usage of 其 is acceptable, IMO it detracts from the style and fluency of the passage. 即 读起来 吭吭吃吃的。

所以依我看,简单地说, 这个“其”不可取。


[Edited at 2013-03-24 19:52 GMT]


 
ysun
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同意 Steve 的意见 Mar 24, 2013

Phil Hand wrote:

齐国的部队小,军事能力有限。秦国跟齐国打起战来,其必然要被毁灭。所以齐国非常重视用外交手段维持天下和平。

即,宜将该句修改如下:“齐国的部队小,军事能力有限。齐国跟秦国打起来,(其)必然要被毁灭。所以齐国非常重视用外交手段维持天下和平"。修改后的句子中,“其”字可以省略。


 
ysun
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若想保留“其”字 Mar 24, 2013

Phil Hand wrote:

秦国跟齐国打起战来,其必然要被毁灭。

单就这一句而言,也可改为“秦国跟齐国打起仗来,必然能将其毁灭”。但若从整体考虑,还是上面的改法较顺。


 
ysun
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“其”的位置 Mar 25, 2013

比较下面这两句话,我觉得第二句念起来较通顺:
1. 齐国跟秦国打起仗来,其必然要被毁灭(灭亡)。
2. 齐国跟秦国打起仗来,必然要被其毁灭(灭亡)。

所以我认为,应把第一句中的其字去掉,或采用第二句。


 
kenny2006woo (X)
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為明晰計 Mar 25, 2013

為求明晰,可省去『其』字,即改為:齊秦相鬥,齊必亡。

引Phil上文:
齐国的部队小,军事能力有限。秦国跟齐国打起战来,其必然要被毁灭。所以齐国非常重视用外交手段维持天下和平。

整句可改為:齊兵力微,與秦爭,必亡,是故齊求清平,首重外交。

[Edited at 2013-03-25 04:35 GMT]

[Edited at 2013-03-25 04:49 GMT]


 
ysun
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改得很好 Mar 25, 2013

Kenny,

很久不见,不知你目前是否从事自己所喜爱的工作,是否一切顺利?

那个句子,你改得很好。不过,如果你做 editing,可别改得太多。否则原翻译者肯定会强烈抗议。


 
kenny2006woo (X)
kenny2006woo (X)

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老孫好 Mar 26, 2013

我體弱,自畢業,一直在家療養。其間蒙一蘇格蘭友人舉薦,得以在一英國出版社身任微職,如今已兩年了。其餘所做之工作多為校對編輯之類,翻譯則僅偶為之。這類工作,朝不慮夕,非長久安生之計,且我身體差,與電腦終日相對,也非我所宜。所以,如今身體漸復,我正考慮找個穩定的工作,苦在自己一無所長,不知做什麽好。

唉,旋將而立,而潦倒如此,是足悲矣!

您老一切都還好吧?

哦,我做校對的話不會去那麼大動干戈的,因為那樣費力不討好。

[Edited at 2013-03-26 08:52 GMT]


 
ysun
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乐观些 Mar 26, 2013

Kenny,

你好!难怪很久没见你了。希望你多注意身体。留得青山在,不怕没柴烧。你应该乐观些。你汉语、英语基础都很好,还有化工专业本科毕业的坚实背景,总会有用武之地。根据中国大陆翻译市场的现状,做翻译未必是一项好的选择。俗话说:When God closes a door, he opens a window。你说得对,先找个稳定的工作,再从长计议。若身体状况允许,也可在业余时间适当做些翻译。


 
wherestip
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Keep your chin up Mar 27, 2013

Kenny,

I was wondering about your longtime absence from the forum too. I'm sorry to hear about the setbacks you've been having; but it's also good to hear that your health is gradually improving. I hope you have a full recovery soon!

Keep your spirits up. Like Yueyin said, when a door closes, a window opens. 留得青山在,不怕没柴烧。


 
kenny2006woo (X)
kenny2006woo (X)

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多謝兩位前輩勉勵 Mar 27, 2013

多謝兩位前輩勉勵。我還不想這樣終此一生,我會努力努力再努力的。:)

 
redred
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TOPIC STARTER
言归正传 Mar 30, 2013

平常看到Job Responsibilities,其中有个习惯写法是Traveling required.为什么需要这样写?

完整的是Traveling that is required, right?



[Edited at 2013-03-30 12:17 GMT]


 
wherestip
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Traveling required Mar 30, 2013

redred wrote:

平常看到Job Responsibilities,其中有个习惯写法是Traveling required.为什么需要这样写?

完整的是Traveling that is required, right?



redred,

The complete sentence is:

Traveling is required.


 
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句子第一个词用过去分词






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