| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5] | Proz与其它论坛的不同 Thread poster: dd dd
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ysun wrote:
Libin PhD wrote:
倒是我自己感到这里比较无聊，后来就很少来，也很少说话了。
其实我觉得这里的很多争论都是利益驱使，很多人都想通过proz找项目，结果很容易就搞得像仇人似的。
事实上，李斌与我跟前年那场纠纷的双方都没有任何商业来往，也没有任何经济利益冲突。我们只是管了些闲事罢了。 甚至连李斌与我之间也没有任何商业利益方面的来往。我们只是在多年前凑巧被用户分别选中（a small world），分别对用户负责而已。 我俩对 ProZ.com 的依赖极小。如果哪天不想来了，那就不来了吧！况且看势头，以后空闲的时间将越来越少。
我觉得网友也像朋友一样，我的原则是，在朋友之间不发生有金钱往来的业务关系，以免有朝一日因为利益而伤了和气，本意是出于对情谊的重视，所以不走群众路线。
我对Proz的依赖性为零。仅在2003年接过一次口译项目，大约二、三千块钱，够我在这里交一、二十年的会费了，等于是为proz做的，所以现在连会费都不想交了。
上贴中，顺便澄清一下我们以前提交的帖子不是针对文哲的，以免误解，这事到此为止。以后还是不谈为好。
[Edited at 2009-07-04 13:45 GMT]
| | | | ysun 
United States
Local time: 21:17
English to Chinese
+ ...
Libin PhD wrote:
我觉得网友也像朋友一样，我的原则是，在朋友之间不发生有金钱往来的业务关系，以免有朝一日因为利益而伤了和气，本意是出于对情谊的重视，所以不走群众路线。
我对Proz的依赖性为零。仅在2003年接过一次口译项目，大约二、三千块钱，够我在这里交一、二十年的会费了，等于是为proz做的，所以现在连会费都不想交了。
我不排斥在同仁之间建立业务协作关系。几年来，我虽然与某些同仁建立了业务协作关系，但那完全是建立在相互尊重人格、互助互利基础上的，并非是简单的雇佣关系、金钱关系。 对于这样的合作伙伴，我从无任何附加条件，从不要求他们做任何会使他们感到难堪的事情，更不希望他们参与论坛上的任何是非纠纷。 我们在通过邮件联络或见面时，甚至根本不谈那些与翻译业务无关的事情。 有人很天真地问别人：“你能为自己拉到几票？” 我想告诉她，我的看法是：“不搞政治斗争还需要拉什么票？只有热衷于政治斗争的人才会去拉票。这样的问题与其问别人，倒还不如问问自己吧！”
迄今为止，我与所有的 moderators（包括 Donglai 的前任），都没有任何业务协作关系。即使将来与现任的 moderators 建立这种关系，我也绝不会要求他们做任何违背原则的事情。而且，现任 moderators 都是正直和坚持原则的人。 我相信他们绝不会因为任何私利而放弃原则。
至于对 ProZ.com 的依赖，我在 ProZ.com 也仅接过一个项目，那也是几年以前的事了。我在此总共只投过两次标，后来干脆连 Job Postings 都懒得看了。我对 ProZ.com 的依赖也就只是 Blue Board。有新客户找上门来时，我就去查一查，以免上当。实际上对我俩而言，即使不用 Blue Board 也并不是过不去，因为老客户们连续不断送来的项目已经足够我们忙的了。所以，即使离开 ProZ.com，那也不是不能活了。某些所谓争地盘的说法，纯粹是以己之心度他人。
[Edited at 2009-07-05 14:58 GMT]
| | | | ysun
United States
Local time: 21:17
English to Chinese
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| ysun
United States
Local time: 21:17
English to Chinese
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| The necessity of enforcement of the site rules | Aug 11, 2009 |
Some users/members of ProZ.com don’t like the site rules. In their opinion, no postings should be removed or hidden even if they violate the rules, and no forum users/members should be suspended, either temporarily or permanently. They are even surprised to see that the management has the right to terminate profile of a member. In my opinion, the site rules and enforcement thereof are absolutely necessary.
As we have seen in the Chinese forum, some users/members are go... See more Some users/members of ProZ.com don’t like the site rules. In their opinion, no postings should be removed or hidden even if they violate the rules, and no forum users/members should be suspended, either temporarily or permanently. They are even surprised to see that the management has the right to terminate profile of a member. In my opinion, the site rules and enforcement thereof are absolutely necessary.
As we have seen in the Chinese forum, some users/members are good at quarrelling, but are not good at debating within the permission of the site rules. They are good at criticizing others, but are not good at providing reasons and evidences to support their arguments. When they are running out of words in a discussion or a debate, they just launch personal attacks using offensive languages, i.e., 理屈词穷, 恼羞成怒. We saw this pattern over and over again in this forum. We also saw this pattern in a most recent debate. This provides a very good example to show why the site rules and enforcement thereof are absolutely necessary.
When I visited forums of some other translator’s websites, I was surprised to see that some of the people were allowed to use whatever offensive languages they wish to use against others, and they were allowed to attack whoever they wish to attack. This is certainly not freedom of speech. It’s anarchy and chaos! I even started wondering if those people have ever received basic education of civilization. When some of them came from those forums to ProZ.com, it is natural that they feel restrained and uncomfortable. No wonder they don’t like the site rules and enforcement thereof. ▲ Collapse
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ysun
United States
Local time: 21:17
English to Chinese
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| About removal of posts | Aug 15, 2009 |
Some forum users often overreacted when their posts were removed by a moderator or a staff member. In their opinion, such an action is against freedom of speech. As I understand, the purpose of removing or hiding inappropriate posts is to keep good order in the forum. In a recent debate, when my counterpart run out of words, he made some offensive remarks. As those remarks were written in English, they were immediately caught by a staff member. His posts were removed and appropriate action ... See more Some forum users often overreacted when their posts were removed by a moderator or a staff member. In their opinion, such an action is against freedom of speech. As I understand, the purpose of removing or hiding inappropriate posts is to keep good order in the forum. In a recent debate, when my counterpart run out of words, he made some offensive remarks. As those remarks were written in English, they were immediately caught by a staff member. His posts were removed and appropriate action was taken. The staff member also informed me that he also removed some of my posts as they were in response to posts which have been removed in line with site rules. Although my posts didn't violate any rules, I understand and respect his decision. I've never sent him any support request ticket, but the appropriate action was still taken. That shows the management pays great attention to enforcement of the site rules. In fact, the enforcement of the site rules is intended to protect the right of freedom of speech for most of the forum users.
Usually, when someone’s post is removed by a moderator or a staff member, the moderator or staff member will send him an email explaining the reason. If you feel your post is unreasonably removed, you may ask for an explanation by submitting a support ticket. However, I don’t think it is appropriate to question the action openly in the forum or attack the moderator or staff member. If you don’t want your posts to be removed, the best solution is to think twice before you post your posts. If you don’t like the site rules, or if you think those rules are too strict for you to accept, you may choose to leave. If you would like to stay here, just obey the rules and Do in Rome as the Romans do.
[Edited at 2009-08-16 04:27 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | ysun
United States
Local time: 21:17
English to Chinese
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| Avoid speculating on others' opinions | Sep 29, 2009 |
Misunderstanding or being unable to understand others may cause unnecessary disputes, e.g.:
http://www.proz.com/post/1160014#1160014
PhD Angeline H wrote:
既然说到了鲁迅先生的“fair play”，那就再说说他的另外一句名言，“痛打落水狗”。… 你又有什么资格痛打落水狗？
"Fair play" was indeed mentioned in that thread. However, it is very obvious that it has nothing to do with “痛打落水狗". If you speculate that others are going to practice "痛打落水狗" when they say "fair play", it’s just a misunderstanding on your own part. Speculating on others' opinions is a violation of the Forum Rules.
http://www.proz.com/siterules/forum/5#5
5. Speculating on others' opinions is not allowed… ('Jenny seems to think...')
Fair play by itself is nothing wrong. A major objective of ProZ.com Moderator Program is helping to ensure fair play.
http://www.proz.com/?sp=moderators
So-called “痛打落水狗" is your own idea (something you wanted to "再说说"), not others’. You were criticizing an idea that doesn’t belong to others, but belongs to yourself. Don’t you think it is illogical, Dr.?
[Edited at 2009-09-30 01:27 GMT]
| | | | ysun
United States
Local time: 21:17
English to Chinese
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| A basic concept | Sep 29, 2009 |
PhD Angeline H wrote:
既然说到了鲁迅先生的“fair play”…
Fair play is a commonly used English phrase that refers to:
1. playing according to the rules of a game without cheating;
2. fair treatment of people without cheating or being dishonest.
This phrase is not an invention of Mr. Lu Xun. The phrase had been in use for at least 1000 years before Mr. Lu Xun published his famous article 《论"费厄泼赖"应该缓行》, which has been taught for decades in middle schools throughout mainland China.
[Edited at 2009-09-30 15:38 GMT]
| | | | ysun
United States
Local time: 21:17
English to Chinese
+ ...
| Zero tolerance to personal attacks | Jun 6, 2010 |
http://www.proz.com/post/1520386#1520386
Donglai Lou wrote:
ysun wrote:
你不犯规怎么会被禁言？据我所知，中文社区原地不复活的人只有一位，那是因为严重犯规而“三振出局”。
从过去的做法来看，Proz不希望会员在论坛等处公开讨论其所做的处罚决定，无论这种讨论是对决定的肯定，还是否定。
此外，每个staff或moderator对规则的掌握，以及所做决定的合理性都不完全一样。有些操作者会因两、三个“不太恰当”的意见贴就将某会员禁言。而有些操作者会在不出现粗言秽语争吵地情况下允许各方充分交换意见。这些做法都各有利弊。
其实，我更希望proz能建立一个类似驾照扣分的机制，明确规定哪些情况扣几分，扣满多少分禁言，禁言多少次终止会员资格等等。但这在可操作性及操作人员培训方面会有很多挑战。不过，我尚未给proz做这个建议；主要是实在太懒，怕麻烦，再加一些个人因素。
总体上来看，proz的制度还是在不断完善之中，特别是最近关于job system的变革，还是有些成效的。
Donglai,
对于你在《谁来谈谈北京翻译职业大会的情况吧》那里的上述意见，我想搬到这里来谈也许比较合适。我不准备谈对具体个人的处罚决定，只想就某些不良现象谈谈看法。
我个人认为，对于在论坛上使用恶毒语言进行人身攻击者，应当采取零容忍的政策。若不如此，我们这个论坛就难免会堕落为“译网仇深”那样的论坛。
我一向认为，在规则容许的范围内辩论，哪怕辩得面红耳赤也没关系。真理越辩越明，但绝对不容许使用恶毒语言进行人身攻击。某些人辩论无能，骂人却擅长。一到理屈词穷、恼羞成怒时就开骂。你总不能与这种没教养的人一般见识，跟他对骂吧？有的人还自以为自己英文水平高就用英文开骂，结果恰巧遇到某管理人员来巡视，马上受到纪律制裁。我理解，这就是零容忍的政策。你说那人到底是聪明还是如何？这种人如果不吸取教训，今后难免会有更大麻烦。前车之覆，后车之鉴。
ysun wrote:
As we have seen in the Chinese forum, some users/members are good at quarrelling, but are not good at debating within the permission of the site rules. They are good at criticizing others, but are not good at providing reasons and evidences to support their arguments. When they are running out of words in a discussion or a debate, they just launch personal attacks using offensive languages, i.e., 理屈词穷, 恼羞成怒. We saw this pattern over and over again in this forum. We also saw this pattern in a most recent debate. This provides a very good example to show why the site rules and enforcement thereof are absolutely necessary.
| | | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5] | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Proz与其它论坛的不同 | Trados Business Manager Lite |
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