| Страниц в теме: < [1 2 3 4 5] | Road to Slavery? (Discussion on a perceived fall in prices) Автор темы: Michael Meinhardt
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Oleg Rudavin 
Украина
Local time: 16:48
Член ProZ.com c 2003
английский => украинский
+ ...
| Yeah this approach is viable too | Feb 20, 2009 |
Michael Meinhardt wrote:
And Oleg: I am not adjusting my rates. I'm experimenting with other people's greed and the imaginary importance of "quality translation".
It's indeed a tough question - especially in view of the current situation which is a result of the bubblegum structure of the modern economy and society: is it all real? Or is it all a game? Rates - is there a 'real' economical component or it all boils down to who's greedier? Quality translation - is quality really important, or do we translators deceive ourselves (and clients as well!) crediting importance to something that doesn't matter a single little bit?
No definitive answers; myself, I sway from one extremety to the other when switching from translating say, a well-thought and thorough article on relations between parents and children to training materials on cross- and upsales (read: how to lure us fools into buying more things we don't need.
The thread is called Road to Slavery? (Discussion on a perceived fall in prices) - it might quite as well mean it's all a matter of perception then?
Yes there is a Road to Slavery - just as a Road to Freedom and Independence. The big question is whether we follow the former or take (or, more probably, build) the latter.
Cheers,
Oleg
| | | | Oleg Rudavin
Украина
Local time: 16:48
Член ProZ.com c 2003
английский => украинский
+ ...
| Living in a cheap country is extremely expensive | Feb 20, 2009 |
Arnaud HERVE wrote:
But there is one serious element: I do in fact contemplate moving to a cheaper country...
Of course moving there requires a more complete analysis. What do you lose, what do you gain in a deregulated economy? What about dental care? What about transport, etc. So I'm not saying a deregulated economy is a paradise for translators, it's more like a relative choice.
... a low rate with low taxes is not a low rate anymore, and a high rate with very heavy taxes is not a high rate anymore...
I can give you some insight Arnaud:
Most translators in Ukraine work under a simplified tax system. This system means we pay a fixed amount in taxes irrespective of our income (unless the annual income exceeds UAH 500,000 - approximately EUR 50,000). The tax is (yes!) EUR 10 per month.
That's the 'gain' aspect.
The 'lose' aspect includes disgusting roads; annual inflation of 25% (with consumer goods prices growing accordingly); local heating supply companies disconnecting heating in residential blocks, districts and entire cities because somebody failed to timely pay his bill; corruption at all levels (I can't get my money back from an insurance company after a car accident that happened three years ago even though I was proven not guilty by the court); 50% counterfeit products and another 40% of substandard quality products, and the remaining 10% of high quality poroducts prices being twice as high as in the well-to-do Europe.
The 'lose' aspect will include fear of becoming a crime victim; a victim of governmental resolution (the local currency, hryvnya lost 60% of its weight compared to $ or € virtually overnight); unilateral decision of banks (my family had an account in the bank frozen because of liquidity problems in the bank - the funds will (hopefully) be released in six months' time; or banks increasing the interest on loans from 15% to 20% because they believe the financial crisis is a force majeure and thus they have the right to do so)...
Shall I continue?
Taking the logic to its limits is a dangerous thing
Have a good weekend!
Oleg
| | | | Arianne Farah
Канада
Local time: 09:48
Член ProZ.com c 2008
английский => французский
| .... the China game | Mar 18, 2009 |
Hello, please find below, for your amusement, a few e-mail exchanges with agencies in China (fyi, I live in China and, not surprisingly do not have a single Chinese client). They universally seem to believe that since I am in China I should be charging local rates. I just saw a posting on Craigslist for a native English translator to work from Chinese to English and the pay was 250RMB/DAY (about 35USD)! A native English speaker can earn 250RMB/HOUR teaching English. Obviously they believe that C... See more Hello, please find below, for your amusement, a few e-mail exchanges with agencies in China (fyi, I live in China and, not surprisingly do not have a single Chinese client). They universally seem to believe that since I am in China I should be charging local rates. I just saw a posting on Craigslist for a native English translator to work from Chinese to English and the pay was 250RMB/DAY (about 35USD)! A native English speaker can earn 250RMB/HOUR teaching English. Obviously they believe that Chinese to English translations are the same as English to Chinese and often they simply use native Chinese students who've studied a little English for their translations... which explains the Chinglish that permeates the world.
Back to the emails, when it has become quite clear in my mind that I will not be working with an agency I usually keep corresponding with the agency with the translator's weapon of choice - snooty, sarcastic and condescending e-mails This is how I vent against those who would exploit my time and talent for their own personal gain.
Agency #1: Dear Arianne,
This is Emma, working for XXXXX Translation company. Glad to know you from PROZ.
Could you let me know are you a native French translator in China? What is the rate from English to French?
Looking forward to your kind reply.
Thanks and best regards.
My reply: Hello Emma,
Yes, I am a native French translator and I live in Shanghai. My rates for translation are 0.XXUSD/word for translation and 0.XXUSD/word for editing. I use Trados, SDLX and Wordfast. If you have not already, you can consult my professional profile at http://www.proz.com/profile/736235 for references.
Have a wonderful day,
Agency #1: Dear Arianne,
Could you let me know if you can accept RMB180-200.00/1000 (this is 0.025USD/word) English words from English to French? We have lots manuals need translate everymonth, and they are not hard to translate. Most of them are DVD, VCD, ATV, CTV, DIGITAL CAMERA, DIGITAL PHOTO FRAME, MP3/4...
Looking forward to your kind reply.
Thanks and best regards.
My reply :Hello Emma,
Thank you for your answer.
I am sorry but my rates are fixed at 0.XXUSD/source word (XXXRMB/1000 English words). If this fits within your budget please do not hesitate to contact me for future translation work!
Have a wonderful day!
[Now at this point you would think that we would go our merry ways since we cannot reach an agreement... but no....]
Agency # 1:Dear Arianne,
Did you do as that rate with Chinese company before? That price is more than 2times expensive than what we quote to client.... That is really high..
Kind regards.
[Seriously I just about laughed out loud! Why should I change my rate for a Chinese company? Is it my fault they quoted their client a ridiculous rate for a French translation?]
My Reply: Dear Emma,
I am sorry but I do not share my client information with other, prospective, clients. However I can say that my prices are in line with the worldwide cost of English to French translation which is quite country independent.
Good luck on your search,
[Again, you would expect this to be the last but... no...]
Agency # 1: I see.. I didnt ask for your client informations, I just mean that Chinese translation company really feel high for that rate...thank you very much.
[Notice the lack of actual formatting for this e-mail, or even an opening line... and I do seem to recall she asked me if I worked for Chinese agencies... I consider that client information ;-]
So the next time around I was actually a little mean to the poor PM since she worked for the Chinese branch of a VERY big US-based multinational translation agency and they should know better than to try to bully translators
[This is after I've sent them a sample of a technical translation in the explosives field]
Agency # 2: Dear Ms Farah,
Many thanks for your email and the translation sample, which is very expressive
Your information has been updated in our database and we will bear you in mind for any suitable project in the future.
Kind regards,
Alice
[Great! though I believe she meant "impressive", not "expressive", whatever, we all make mistakes... but then a few hours later I get this e-mail]
Agency # 2: Dear Ms Farah,
I hope you are well.
When I updated your information, I realized that your rate is above our budget. I would appreciate it if you could quote us your most competitive price as we are operating in China.
Kind regards,
[This is where I get mean because they are a HUGE multinational, she might be in an office in China but the checks are being cut in a Manhattan office somewhere]
My reply: Hello Alice,
I am glad that my sample translation was up to your standards.
My rates however are fixed and those I quoted were already my agency rates (somewhat less than what I quote direct clients). I realize that you are based in XXXXs Shanghai office however to my knowledge, China has yet to produce native French translators in sufficient numbers to influence global standards. Quite the opposite, my clients have found great advantage in leveraging the unique advantages afforded by the time difference between Europe, North America and Asia. If you have any scientific/technical/medical/engineering projects whose budget can afford my rates you can be assured that you will receive a quality translation in return!
Have a wonderful evening!
In that agency's defense they quite graciously replied but I have not heard from them since
As to the road to Slavery... it is like the road to hell, paved with good intentions - "help out for a difficult client"/"we will do our best to honor your rates going forward but can you take this now at a reduced rate?"/"the source is very well written"/"this is an easy translation"/"very short, won't take much time"/"very long, we are giving you a lot of work"... I think translators should have a new motto: Don't take bull... don't deliver crap ▲ Collapse
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