| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5] > | Credit Crunch hitting Translators? Thread poster: Raf Uzar
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Raf Uzar
Poland
Local time: 18:14
Polish to English
TOPIC STARTER | Comment on comment... | Feb 12, 2009 |
polyglot45 wrote:
The title "Credit crunch hitting translators" is perhaps a little incorrect. Perhaps it would have been better to say "Credit crunch affecting the translation profession".
Polyglot,
To be honest I think you're being a tad pedantic here. If the crunch hits the profession then, by extension, it also affects us also. No?
| | | | Oleg Rudavin 
Ukraine
Local time: 19:14
Member (2003)
English to Ukrainian
+ ...
| Causes and consequences | Feb 12, 2009 |
I'd hate to sound optimistic but...
polyglot45 wrote:
Just to quote a few examples of stories I have recently heard :
1) one translator has lost his biggest client...
2) another is about to lose a client
3) (for) a third ... a contract for translating documentation ... will now not materialise
Doesn't it happen during the best of times?
While recession, unemployment, slowdown are all synonyms of crisis, there is one consequence often disregarded: restructuring.
Are all businesses wrapping up their activities?
Will all Japanese car manufacturers sell their cars exclusively in Japan?
Isn't the crisis a good time to launch new ventures using the opportunity?
Is the globalized world going to split back into isolated national economies and markets?
Probably, ... for each client lost there are at least two new ones waiting in the wings... says it all. The only difference is that a year ago, the number of new ones hiding in the wings was three of perhaps five.
It sometimes takes a good kick in the ass to get us moving - and that's true for everybody: the leading international financial institutions, governments, or translators.
one translator has lost his biggest client... - s/he'll finally be incouraged to get a few new (and preferably, better-paying) ones
another is about to lose a client - s/he's lucky as s/he has tome to get a few new ones to replace the loss
Basically, the crème de la crème (acknowledged or self-appointed) should ride the crisis and come out smelling of roses. So, probably, will the bottom-feeders - there will always be a market for cheap translations among customers for whom cheap and cheerful is the sole requisite or who frankly would not recognise a good translation if they saw one.
This market will always exist, crisis or not. But why not look at the other side: now that the money is short, how many outsourcers can afford cheap translators?
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Oleg wrote:
Isn't the crisis a good time to launch new ventures using the opportunity?
Oleg wrote:
It sometimes takes a good kick in the ass to get us moving - and that's true for everybody: the leading international financial institutions, governments, or translators.
Oleg wrote:
This market will always exist, crisis or not. But why not look at the other side: now that the money is short, how many outsourcers can afford cheap translators?
This resumes what I haven't yet expressed, although I hinted at some of it.
In another recent thread (where several people also expressed concern, to put it mildly), someone was explaining what the word 'crisis' means in Japanese. According to them, it basically means opportunity. This also made me laugh - hopefully, this will not be interpreted as laughing at others' misfortunes again.
The world is changing. If it weren't changing because of a credit crunch or an economy crisis, it would be changing for some other reason. We can't help it. It just changes. We are freelancers. Part of being a freelancer is not depending on anybody, for better or worse. Many of us will be forced to review our ways of doing business - hasn't this always been the case? Those who will come out at the top are those who will take advantage of the opportunity the current situation is offering.
Someone mentioned exchange rates here. Well, in my case, for the moment, the crisis has been good for me on that front - the value of the Canadian dollar versus the US dollar has increased since the end of last year. That, even if seemingly temporary, is a positive effect of the crisis. You know, there are advantages to this, too. What a serious, responsible business owner does in such times is find ways to reduce the negative effects and take advantage of new opportunities to enhance the positive effects. I don't find that things are getting worse - they are just changing. And freelancers should know that freelancing is all about constant change and adaptation.
[Edited at 2009-02-12 21:25 GMT]
| | | | Rod Walters
Japan
Local time: 01:14
Japanese to English
| Business intelligence | Feb 12, 2009 |
Hopefully now that we have that other jolly thread about how everything is going swimmingly, this thread might gradually be purged of all the unsought advice and you-only-have-yourself-to-blame patronage that I had assumed had gone out with Norman Tebbit.
The reason why people are discussing the fact that half or more of their livelihood has disappeared is probably not because they're hopeless whiners who habitually look on the gloomy side. No, the more likely reason is that they'r... See more Hopefully now that we have that other jolly thread about how everything is going swimmingly, this thread might gradually be purged of all the unsought advice and you-only-have-yourself-to-blame patronage that I had assumed had gone out with Norman Tebbit.
The reason why people are discussing the fact that half or more of their livelihood has disappeared is probably not because they're hopeless whiners who habitually look on the gloomy side. No, the more likely reason is that they're seeking business intelligence. That is, first they're trying to ascertain if this is just a personal slump, a segment dip, an industry decline, a national collapse, or an international disaster. This is presumably to allow them better to calibrate their response.
It isn't necessarily a sign of comically low self-confidence or a genetic predisposition to race to the bottom to ask "Is anybody else experiencing pricing pressure?" When Toyota suddenly goes in the course of a few weeks from being one of the most admired companies in the world to being hopelessly in the red, it seems reasonable to ask other translators in other segments, "Et tu, Brute?" That way it may be possible to identify an under-served segment and target it (using of course, all those previously mysterious marketing techniques that our peers have so kindly apprised us of.)
Lest anybody think that I too may be some feckless piggy in a house of straw blinking in surprise, I have seen this crisis coming for at least 4 years, and have welcomed it. Personally I think Japan and many other countries would be far better places if there were more agriculturists and fewer fender welders. However, one must still earn one's crust in the habitual way for a while longer, and it would be convenient to be able to ask around to find out what one doesn't know without a veritable avalanche of what might fairly be described as Pollyanna-ish triumphalism and tough Tebbit-love. ▲ Collapse
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| Anyone heard of Nouriel Roubini? | Feb 13, 2009 |
Mr. Roubini, an economist at New York's Stern school of management, is widely acknowledged as one of the first people to concretely predict the financial meltdown two years ago (it has been discussed off on and as far back as the 80s, with the release of a book called "The Great Depression of 1990").
Yet at the World Economic Forum 2008 in Davos, Mr. Roubini was largely ignored if not ridiculed and called Dr. Doom.
The present international financial crisis has been b... See more Mr. Roubini, an economist at New York's Stern school of management, is widely acknowledged as one of the first people to concretely predict the financial meltdown two years ago (it has been discussed off on and as far back as the 80s, with the release of a book called "The Great Depression of 1990").
Yet at the World Economic Forum 2008 in Davos, Mr. Roubini was largely ignored if not ridiculed and called Dr. Doom.
The present international financial crisis has been brewing for a long time. On a personal level, I worked on systems data modeling for securitization and CMO products on Wall Street back in 1995, and when we engineers saw how the financial industry was originating loans and selling them on to unsuspecting investors while pocketing huge fees, I was frankly aghast at what was going on. I had no doubt in my mind that this was a disaster in the making. Frankly, I'm surprised it took this long to materialize.
The crisis is not going away immediately, in the view of most economists.
For the translation industry to get complacent and say it's not going to affect us may be a tad naive.
Having said that, translation is one of the few recession-proof industries in the world, at least in certain sectors, since people will ALWAYS need to communicate. In addition, language skills are relatively rare so we can expect the industry to hold up reasonably well.
Today, Mr. Roubini is no longer ignored or ridiculed, but actively sought out for his views. His own self-appraisal (paraphrased): "I'm not a pessimist but a realist. When the economy recovers and revs up again, I'll be the first to say we're doing well."
I think the translation industry can take a leaf out of Mr. Roubini's book. We need to tighten our belts and stay the course in what could be turbulent times ahead. But ignore it we can do at our own peril.
[Edited at 2009-02-13 05:46 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | I beg to differ | Feb 13, 2009 |
Rod Walters wrote:
Hopefully now that we have that other jolly thread about how everything is going swimmingly, this thread might gradually be purged of all the unsought advice and you-only-have-yourself-to-blame patronage that I had assumed had gone out with Norman Tebbit.
Rod, I beg to differ. The message is not "you only have yourself to blame" - more like "you can't count on anybody but yourself to get yourself out of this mess". Not quite the same thing. Crisis or no crisis, as a freelancer any one of a number of events beyond our control can have a negative impact on our business at any time. We can't always be as ready as we'd like to be, but we owe it to ourselves to have as many foreseeable bases covered as we can. Besides, what is the point of spreading doom and gloom?
Rod Walters wrote:
The reason why people are discussing the fact that half or more of their livelihood has disappeared is probably not because they're hopeless whiners who habitually look on the gloomy side. No, the more likely reason is that they're seeking business intelligence. That is, first they're trying to ascertain if this is just a personal slump, a segment dip, an industry decline, a national collapse, or an international disaster. This is presumably to allow them better to calibrate their response.
Personnally, when I want to find out what's going on on my segment of the market, a Proz forum is the last place I look for so-called "business intelligence". I get on the phone and start calling clients to see what's up. The translation industry is extremely pixellated and made up of a multitude of widely varying segments. I doubt that taking the temperature of the market on Proz can provide any useful information about broad trends. In any case, as freelaners, our window on the market is so narrow that I doubt even massive amounts of anecdotal evidence from individual freelancers is that meaningful.
Rod Walters wrote:
That way it may be possible to identify an under-served segment and target it (using of course, all those previously mysterious marketing techniques that our peers have so kindly apprised us of.)
There's no mystery to it at all. Most of what I do is found in any Marketing 101 textbook. Basic stuff, but it works.
(Oops, sorry, does that fall into the "unsought advice" category?).
| | | | Nadja Balogh
Germany
Local time: 18:14
Member (2007)
Japanese to German
+ ...
| I'm with Rod here | Feb 13, 2009 |
Rod Walters wrote:
It isn't necessarily a sign of comically low self-confidence or a genetic predisposition to race to the bottom to ask "Is anybody else experiencing pricing pressure?" When Toyota suddenly goes in the course of a few weeks from being one of the most admired companies in the world to being hopelessly in the red, it seems reasonable to ask other translators in other segments, "Et tu, Brute?"
I agree very much. Even though, yes, of course we're all responsible ourselves, everything's up to us - to have this obvious wisdom repeated again and again is just getting slightly boring, and it is wonderful to read something a bit different for a change.
| | | | | Rod and Anil | Feb 13, 2009 |
I'm with you all the way, especially with Rod's very well turned prose.
It's all very well to say that lost clients can be replaced with new and advocate marketing techniques but being a translator does not necessarily mean being a natural expert in marketing and translators are, in my experience, very often self-effacing (the ones who are not tend to favour interpreting).
The crisis will affect us all in one way or the other. Combined with greater concern for the envir... See more I'm with you all the way, especially with Rod's very well turned prose.
It's all very well to say that lost clients can be replaced with new and advocate marketing techniques but being a translator does not necessarily mean being a natural expert in marketing and translators are, in my experience, very often self-effacing (the ones who are not tend to favour interpreting).
The crisis will affect us all in one way or the other. Combined with greater concern for the environment, diminishing resources and the fact that our society has now reached the sort of realms of excess that drove the Romans and Greeks to the wall (to name but two), the new situation will sooner or later probably culminate in a society with different values, perhaps less consumerism, less travel (because more expensive) and a more local focus. That, in turn, could result in a resurgence of a form of parochialism that could ultimately affect the translation industry.
I admit this is painting a very black picture but, when a crisis like the present one hits, everybody will feel the pinch at some level: reduced purchasing power, inability to buy/sell property, someone in the family unemployed, more unemployed people turning to professions such as translation to survive.... the risks are legion. Good translators should not have to worry. Others should be watching their backs. But then, do the bad translators realise that they are bad and are all the self-styled good translators as good as they think?
Thought for the day..... ▲ Collapse
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| On being boring | Feb 13, 2009 |
Nadja Balogh wrote: Rod Walters wrote:
It isn't necessarily a sign of comically low self-confidence or a genetic predisposition to race to the bottom to ask "Is anybody else experiencing pricing pressure?" When Toyota suddenly goes in the course of a few weeks from being one of the most admired companies in the world to being hopelessly in the red, it seems reasonable to ask other translators in other segments, "Et tu, Brute?" I agree very much. Even though, yes, of course we're all responsible ourselves, everything's up to us - to have this obvious wisdom repeated again and again is just getting slightly boring, and it is wonderful to read something a bit different for a change.
It's also getting boring to see the same old doom-and-gloom and yet-another-ridiculously-low-rate-job-on-Proz threads week after week after week - I think it's important to continue to emphasise that not every translator is facing a choice between accepting starvation rates or actually starving.
Still, the whole debate between the two camps is getting increasingly monotonous and unproductive, I agree.
| | | | Rod Walters
Japan
Local time: 01:14
Japanese to English
| No gloom here... | Feb 13, 2009 |
Sara Freitas-Maltaverne wrote:
Besides, what is the point of spreading doom and gloom?
Asking other people how they're doing is not spreading doom and gloom. Please look again at the title of this thread. If it happens to fill you with doom and gloom, there is now a happier thread for you to visit. I think we've ascertained that you believe the answer is "No", so I wonder what else you can really add?
Sara Freitas-Maltaverne wrote:
Personnally, when I want to find out what's going on on my segment of the market, a Proz forum is the last place I look for so-called "business intelligence". I get on the phone and start calling clients to see what's up. The translation industry is extremely pixellated and made up of a multitude of widely varying segments. I doubt that taking the temperature of the market on Proz can provide any useful information about broad trends. In any case, as freelaners, our window on the market is so narrow that I doubt even massive amounts of anecdotal evidence from individual freelancers is that meaningful.
Thank you. However, I don't think you can presume that because I, among other people, may be curious about the broader situation, that I'm not also monitoring other channels.
Sara Freitas-Maltaverne wrote: Rod Walters wrote:
That way it may be possible to identify an under-served segment and target it (using of course, all those previously mysterious marketing techniques that our peers have so kindly apprised us of.)
There's no mystery to it at all. Most of what I do is found in any Marketing 101 textbook. Basic stuff, but it works. (Oops, sorry, does that fall into the "unsought advice" category?).
Chuckle.
[Edited at 2009-02-13 09:01 GMT]
| | | | | Entirely agree | Feb 13, 2009 |
Marie-Hélène Hayles wrote:
It's also getting boring to see the same old doom-and-gloom and yet-another-ridiculously-low-rate-job-on-Proz threads week after week after week.
...
Still, the whole debate between the two camps is getting increasingly monotonous and unproductive, I agree.
Absolutely! If this is the end of the world, let's do something! Complaining is just no good. The situation takes action! Ideas are welcome.
| | | | | Any specific measures | Feb 13, 2009 |
Rod Walters wrote:
I have seen this crisis coming for at least 4 years.
I laud your spirit, Rod. Realism that may risk being viewed as unnecessary pessimism is certainly better than being caught unprepared.
I'd be interested in knowing of any specific measures you have taken to ride out any possible effects this crisis may have on the translation industry.
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Laurent KRAULAND (X)
France
Local time: 18:14
French to German
+ ...
| As Roosevelt put it... | Feb 13, 2009 |
Viktoria Gimbe wrote:
Some people may have been experiencing some difficulties lately, but pointing the finger right away at the crisis is a bit too soon, I say. I had a slow period at the end of last summer, and I didn't blame it on anything - it just so happened that none of my clients had work for me. Did I get scared? No. I spent some time wondering how I can ensure that I don't have any more of those slow periods. Being all negative all of a sudden will not help any of us to bring in the contracts. Some people talk, some people act. We may want to discuss things in the meantime, but feeling terrorized, in my humble opinion, is not an option. And when those who feel terrorized spread their fears around like a virus, yes, that makes me laugh.
There's nothing we have to fear except fear itself.
And even that can be too much...
Laurent K.
| | | | | Evoloution is about adaptation | Feb 13, 2009 |
polyglot45 wrote:
It's all very well to say that lost clients can be replaced with new and advocate marketing techniques but being a translator does not necessarily mean being a natural expert in marketing and translators are, in my experience, very often self-effacing (the ones who are not tend to favour interpreting).
A natural expert, huh? How many of those do you suppose there are? The rule of survival in Nature is "adapt or die", but the poor and the poorly organized translators will, it seems, always be among us. So let's encourage all those "self-effacing", starving souls to stay in their comfort zones and take what hits them, right? Don't be so rude as to suggest alternatives and then leave them to judge what will work for them and what will not?
The crisis will affect us all in one way or the other... That, in turn, could result in a resurgence of a form of parochialism that could ultimately affect the translation industry.
Yes, the Dark Ages will soon be upon us. The barbarian hordes have already arrives in waves of immigration, legal and otherwise. Fortunately, they have brought their Babel with them, creating local opportunities for translation and interpreting. Perhaps this may help get us through as we huddle around our campfires under bridges in the World of Crisis.
I've already been affected on several levels by the current mess, just in ways that at this point have nothing to do with forcing lower rates. Indeed, the measures I am forced to take compel me to raise my rates, and it now looks like I may be forced to raise them more in some cases to do some things which I find very, very bothersome and disruptive to my carefully chosen niche. What effects this will have I cannot say: it might dynamite my clientele or it might bring in even more business as past rate increases appear to have done in a number of cases. In this case, however, it will scarcely increase profits and quality, just effort.
... do the bad translators realise that they are bad and are all the self-styled good translators as good as they think?
The answer to that riddle may be found here:
http://gagne.homedns.org/~tgagne/contrib/unskilled.html
| | | | Rod Walters
Japan
Local time: 01:14
Japanese to English
| Not enough really | Feb 13, 2009 |
Anil Gidwani wrote:
I'd be interested in knowing of any specific measures you have taken to ride out any possible effects this crisis may have on the translation industry.
Well, apart from a bit of marketing here and there and generally satisfying my clients, I've built a house with solar panels on it and very low running costs, with a low, fixed-rate mortgage and some land planted with fruit trees. I'm learning to farm. We have few costs.
As far as doing anything very specific to translation to prepare, not a great deal really, and certainly not enough. However, there's no immediate emergency, and I'm starting the search for replacements for those clients that have been able to pull in all their extremities like tortoises. They may have to stick something back out again soon anyway. Apart from keeping your health, have you been doing anything?
I'd like to point out that there aren't "two camps" involved here at all. Where I've been able to read between the lines that other, clearly very competent translators in my peer group have seen their businesses contract, it's been a source of comfort. It would be nice to be able to talk to them without interruption from the constant braying about 'doom and gloom' of those who seem to think there's a camp that needs defending.
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