manducci (asker) Sep 12, 2009:

Thanks, Jim. Yes, there is additional context: the whole gist of the text is about Berlin's duality and lack of a fixed identity ... a kind of city in limbo so to speak... anyway, I like the addition of 'prospects' here and will speak to the author Monday to clarify her meaning ... thanks again, Jim.

James (Jim) Davis Sep 12, 2009:

In that case "poised between the prospects of a progressive, imminent". But this is an interpretation that is a leap of logic from the actual text that is posted here. Do you have any other contextual information to back up the interpretation. The text as it is is implausible, but it might be the "gradually increasing fortunes of an imminent future" to consider the more literal meaning of progressivo.

Russell Jones Sep 12, 2009:

That was exactly what I was thinking of!

manducci (asker) Sep 12, 2009:

Thanks everyone for your input...Tom is right: my query is not the meaning of the words themselves but their use in the sentence. I am inclined to agree with Russel that 'progressive fortunes' sounds a bit odd, hence my question. I also agree entirely with Jim that one does have to try and get into the mind of the writer in order to convey what he/she wants to say but, as is so often the case, is incapable of articulating him/herself... and that does mean sometimes changing the text for the sake of clarity. How about leaving out 'fortunes' altogether: ' A capital poised/divided between a progressive, iminent future and the reassuring past of Prussian glory' (?)

James (Jim) Davis Sep 12, 2009:

altrettanto :)

Giuseppe Bellone Sep 12, 2009:

I Agree, James You are perfectly right, and I do the same as you do, even too often, when I find rather strange things in the original text (and it happens more often than one may think, as you said!), but I meant to say that here it seemed to me that your first answer was closer to the original meaning. My wizard powers are not at best this morning!!! :)) Have a nice day full of meaningful sentences and without strange (or even silly) ones! :))

James (Jim) Davis Sep 12, 2009:

Changing the original text. Dunno Beppe, when I translate i generally try to do three things, imagine the thought of the writer that determined the text, imagine the mind of the reader trying to understand that thought and lastly imagine exactly what my ciient wants to achieve with the translation. If the original text needs changing in order to achieve what the client wants, then he will be very satisfied if I change it and of course unsatisfied if I don't (as long as its all legal and above board o'course). Sometimes you need to be a real fortune teller to imagine the author's thoughts and on good days my clients tell me I'm a wizard, but on bad days... :(

Giuseppe Bellone Sep 12, 2009:

To James. I know what you mean, BUT we can't change the original text, as strange as it might be, or not? Otherwise , if we change too much, it's not the original sentence being simply translated, but also changed in its meaning. After all it is not the translator who has to be a wizard and fortuneteller and so on to guess any strange combination of the original thought, as far as possible!!<br>Here it says "sorti progressive" and only "sorti" not the following words! :))

James (Jim) Davis Sep 12, 2009:

Restructuring I think what the author is referring to is the "fortunes in the imminent and progressive future of Berlin", but while you need more context or a phone call to the author to be sure of that Russell, I'm pretty certain that however you rephrase it, the term fortunes will fit.

Tom in London Sep 11, 2009:

Nor I Nor I, but I actually think this question is about the style in which the source text has been written, rather than a question about the meaning of a word. That being so, it's the task of the translator to adopt a style that emuiates that of the original. Not something we can help with here !<br><br>However, it is perfectly possible for outcomes to be progressive (although the very use of the word "progressive" in the source text seems to me very inappropriate - whether "outcomes" or any other word is adopted for "sorti". )

Russell Jones Sep 11, 2009:

Not sure how fortunes or outcomes can be progressive; aren't they the result of progressive policies and measures? I think the sentence needs restructuring - a little off-topic, sorry.