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Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

édifices centrés

English translation:

central plan buildings

Added to glossary by Christopher Crockett
Jun 6, 2007 11:26
16 yrs ago
1 viewer *
French term

centré

French to English Other Religion
Hi everyone

I'm stumped by the meaning of "centrés" in this text and would appreciate your input!
The country in question is Armenia.

Many thanks in advance.


Des photographies d'églises du VIIe révèlent la vision architecturale de la Croix mystique propre aux édifices religieux centrés qui font converger vers un carré central surmonté d’une coupole les quatre bras d’une croix.
Proposed translations (English)
5 +2 central plan buildings
2 +5 centrally planned religious buildings
4 centered
3 central/pivotal
Change log

Jun 6, 2007 15:54: Christopher Crockett Created KOG entry

Discussion

Dominic D Jun 7, 2007:
For my 2 or more axes of symmetry I suppose that mathematically speaking infinity is more than 2 so that should cover the round buildings !
Dominic D Jun 7, 2007:
I know! it's a toughie. I didn't really want to use the cardinal points even though as you say most churches are oriented this way. I suppose one could say the walls in front, behind, to the left and right of the altar.
Christopher Crockett Jun 7, 2007:
the vertical parts of the building-- as well. "Two or more axes of symmetry" works pretty well--as could be seen from some of the sites we found, polygonal buildings of many sides are central plan.But,what about a round building?An infinite number of axes
Christopher Crockett Jun 7, 2007:
I don't know who came up with that "around a vertical axis" idea, and don't remember seeing it until this question came up. While it seems to work for the ground plan of the building, it implies that the symmetry also applies to the "elevation" --
Christopher Crockett Jun 7, 2007:
Your solution would certainly apply, Dominic, IF all buildings were "oriented" (with their major elements at one of the cardinal directions). Alas, though that is certainly the case with *most* medieval buildings, it is not true for all.
Dominic D Jun 7, 2007:
I agree 100% perfect translation! Though as he said, symmetrical around a vertical axis, is a curious way of looking at it. I was racking my brain to try and describe what is obvious to the eye. Or maybe 2 or more axes of symmetry of equal length. :o)
Sandra Petch (asker) Jun 7, 2007:
Thanks Dominic Amazing how these things can keep our brains ticking over! I guess that could be a way of expressing it. In the end I went with Christopher's suggestion, he's an authority on the subject!
Dominic D Jun 7, 2007:
Ah ha! I've just come up with a way of describing the symmetry. How about if one says that the North, East, South and West walls are equidistant from the centre! That seems to cover all the cases!!
Dominic D Jun 6, 2007:
I was going to but I saw that CMJ-Trans had come up with the same answer so I gracefully bowed out! That said I thought you might be interested by the links anyway :o)
Sandra Petch (asker) Jun 6, 2007:
Thanks Dominic for that wonderful link. So it effectively means the structure of the church. Please feel free to post an official answer :-)
Dominic D Jun 6, 2007:
http://eis.net.au/~paulh/charch.htm for the English bit
and
http://eglise-reformee-albi.org/impression_sous_article.php3...
for the French
Dominic D Jun 6, 2007:
CMJ-Trans is absolutely right a "église centrée" differs from the basilica design because it has the alter in the centre of a building with a regular shape such as a square circle, octagon or Greek cross (arms the same length)
Sandra Petch (asker) Jun 6, 2007:
There is a vast amount of info on Armenian church architecture here although nothing suggestive of central, centred or whatever... http://armenianstudies.csufresno.edu/arts_of_armenia/archite...
Sandra Petch (asker) Jun 6, 2007:
Hi Jonathan Yes, I read it as "un édifice religiux centré" - perhaps a reference to its shape?
Jonathan MacKerron Jun 6, 2007:
perhaps denoting several churches in close proximity to each other?
Jonathan MacKerron Jun 6, 2007:
do you understand "centré" as describing "édifices"?

Proposed translations

+2
1 hr
Selected

central plan buildings

CMJ is essentially right, as his linked site says:

"Central Plan / Centrally Planned
In architecture, a centrally planned building is one in which the parts of the building radiate from a central point. A centrally planned building may be square, circular, or polygonal. The most important feature is the open space at the centre of the building, arranged symmetrical around a vertical axis."

However, the in U.S. (and, I believe, U.K.) Art Historical literature, the term is "central plan building," not "centrally planned" or (as in CMJ's Australian site says) "centralized plan building."

In any event, it is *not* a question of "churches designed round a centre line" --this defintion would fit most basilican plan buildings (i.e., buildings which are built around a central axis), even though they can be (and usually are) quite elongated along that central axis.

A central plan building is symetral, yes, but it is symetrical along *both* axises --picture a cross with all four elements being the same length. Or, as CMJ's site says, a polygonal or round building which is symetrical "around a vertical axis" (although this is a somewhat curious way of looking at it).

So,

"Photographs of 7th c. churches make clear the architectural vision of the mystic Cross specifically expressed in central plan, cruciform religious buildings which are built around a central square, which is surmounted by a coupola."

I'll try and find some examples on-line.

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Note added at 1 hr (2007-06-06 12:32:52 GMT)
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Well, even in the U.S., "symmetrical" has two Ms.

I *hate* it when that happens.

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Note added at 1 hr (2007-06-06 12:47:00 GMT)
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Some central plan buildings related to the most famous (early 9th c.) example to survive in France:

http://www.encyclopedie-universelle.com/germigny-les-pres-or...

The addition of a nave still leaves a symmetrical building, but spoils it as a central plan one:

http://jfbradu.free.fr/mosaiques/germigny/01historique.htm

A Google on "central plan" gets quite a few hits:

http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&gbv=2&q="cent...

"centrally planned" gets more:

http://images.google.com/images?gbv=2&svnum=10&hl=en&sa=X&oi...

But many of those in both do not refer to architecture.

I note that an acquaintance of mine at U. Pitt prefers "centrally planned":

http://www.pitt.edu/~medart/menuglossary/longplan.htm

http://www.pitt.edu/~medart/menuglossary/centplan.htm
Peer comment(s):
agree CMJ_Trans (X) : good research
28 mins
Pretty close to my actual field of research. Logically, your adverbal "centrally planned" sounds right, but the jargon I learned 35 years ago insits on "central". Thanks, CMJ.
agree Vicky Papaprodromou
2 hrs
Thanks, Vicky.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "An amazingly complete answer. Thank you Christopher."
26 mins

central/pivotal

2 suggestions that seem to fit context
Peer comment(s):
neutral awilliams : not here
9 mins
Something went wrong...
+5
10 mins

centrally planned religious buildings

http://www.virtualani.org/glossary/index.htm#link3

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 mins (2007-06-06 11:36:42 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

or something along these lines - churches designed round a centre line

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 25 mins (2007-06-06 11:51:34 GMT)
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it means religious nuildings that are centrally focussed, not excentric, in that there is a valuted central square with the 4 arms of the cross leading off

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Note added at 26 mins (2007-06-06 11:52:19 GMT)
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it is the notion of SYMMETRY

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Note added at 30 mins (2007-06-06 11:57:00 GMT)
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my confidence level is low because I'm not sure of the term but I have seen such places.
Peer comment(s):
agree Dominic D
15 mins
agree awilliams : absolutely//central-plan/central plan/centrally
22 mins
agree Assimina Vavoula
37 mins
agree Christopher Crockett : Essentially correct,but I have done a bit of Fine Tuning,from the point of view of U.S. Art History jargon and a somewhat more nuanced view of what constitutes "symmetry"in this context. You should, however, get bonus points for not spelling it "symetry."
59 mins
I think your terminology is probably more correct. When I visit places like these, the explanations tend to be in French and I have no real idea of the English - but the concept is clear
agree Euqinimod (X)
1 hr
Something went wrong...
59 mins

centered

Centered: Religious buildings share the concept of "center," a space designated as sacred. The center is identified by gateways, thresholds, openings, inner and outer realms that imply the sacred "center."
Example sentence:

centered religious buildings

Reference:

http://www.religiousarchitecture.org/about/rel_arch.html

Peer comment(s):
neutral Christopher Crockett : A good point, but that's not what is meant in this context.
22 mins
Something went wrong...
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