Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
effort global
English translation:
overall force
Added to glossary by
Claire Cox
Aug 21, 2017 10:45
6 yrs ago
French term
United Kingdom
French & German Technical Translations
Native in: English
Works in: French to English, German to English
effort global
French to English
Tech/Engineering
Physics
Stress/strain calculations
I'm translating a text about stress-strain calculations, but have reached an impasse in how to distinguish between effort and force in French. I had been using force in English to translate effort, with chargement and sollicitation usually translating as load. However, the following sentence has me flummoxed:
Bien que plus proche d’un déplacement imposé que d’une force imposée, le chargement thermique reste très différent du chargement de type déplacement imposé car il n’a pas d’effort global associé.
Any thoughts?
Many thanks.
Bien que plus proche d’un déplacement imposé que d’une force imposée, le chargement thermique reste très différent du chargement de type déplacement imposé car il n’a pas d’effort global associé.
Any thoughts?
Many thanks.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 2 +1 | overall force / stress / strain |
Tony M
|
| 4 | Overall effort or Global effort |
Messaoudi N.
|
| 4 | it is not associated with any external load |
Daryo
|
| 3 -2 | total work or total force |
Vissertrans
|
Proposed translations
+1
1 hr
Selected
overall force / stress / strain
Low confidence because I am not a specialist in mechanics.
I have observed this often that all these terms may be used slightly differently betwwne FR and EN, leading to a situation where soemtimes 2 terms seem to require the same translation; and in your context, there is no real problem with this, inasmuch as the whole system is explained well enough to make it clear.
By the way, for 'sollicitation' / 'charge', bear in mind that sometimes these can also be 'loading', and in the case of 'sollicitation', even 'stress' or 'strain'.
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Note added at 9 heures (2017-08-21 20:05:29 GMT)
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I think what your text is saying is that, unlike an 'imposed (= external force) force, the 'forces' due to thermal expansion / contraction are not concentrated in one place (e.g. pushing a brick from one end), but are rather 'internal' forces, distributed throughout the structure of the object; neither is it an 'imposed' (= externally-generated) movement (pushing that brick again!) — the whole object does not move, it just gets bigger (or shrinks). So the situation is slightly different... which is what your text is describing. Hence why I think 'overall force (involved)' is probably the right idea; I really don't think the all-to-obvious translation of 'effort' works in this particular context.
I have observed this often that all these terms may be used slightly differently betwwne FR and EN, leading to a situation where soemtimes 2 terms seem to require the same translation; and in your context, there is no real problem with this, inasmuch as the whole system is explained well enough to make it clear.
By the way, for 'sollicitation' / 'charge', bear in mind that sometimes these can also be 'loading', and in the case of 'sollicitation', even 'stress' or 'strain'.
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Note added at 9 heures (2017-08-21 20:05:29 GMT)
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I think what your text is saying is that, unlike an 'imposed (= external force) force, the 'forces' due to thermal expansion / contraction are not concentrated in one place (e.g. pushing a brick from one end), but are rather 'internal' forces, distributed throughout the structure of the object; neither is it an 'imposed' (= externally-generated) movement (pushing that brick again!) — the whole object does not move, it just gets bigger (or shrinks). So the situation is slightly different... which is what your text is describing. Hence why I think 'overall force (involved)' is probably the right idea; I really don't think the all-to-obvious translation of 'effort' works in this particular context.
Note from asker:
| Thanks, Tony - nice to hear a familiar voice :-) I'm not a mechanics specialist either, but I think you're right and that force propbably still works here. I'll check with some other engineering friends too - I appreciate your help! I do use loading in specific cases for sollicitation where applicable. |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Daryo
: although the bit that's really tricky is "global" - which you also interpreted as being an "external" force / effort / strain / solicitation ... whatever
23 hrs
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Thanks, Daryo! Yes, I see 'overall' here as meaning the nett forces acting, which in this case are not 'external' ones.
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks again, Tony: my engineer friend agreed with your view and I went for "because there is no associated generalized applied force" in the end."
49 mins
Messaoudi N.
Native in French
Arabic / English / French translator
Native in: Arabic 
, French
Works in: French to English, Arabic to French, French to Arabic, and 6 more.
Overall effort or Global effort
Effort is a mobilization of physical and / or intellectual strength (force). As for the force, it is the resistance of a material. Therefore, the effort depends on the force.
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Tony M
: "physical and / or intellectual strength" is not relevant here, this is a mechanical physics context. 'Effort' in FR can have a range of meanings in EN (and vice-versa) not all of which are simply interchangeable.
9 mins
|
| agree |
philgoddard
: I don't agree with your explanation, but effort has the same meaning in French and English.
2 hrs
|
| disagree |
Daryo
: your explanation is ways too far off-mark + the context would suggest a different translation as being more accurate for this ST// less puzzling
1 day 13 mins
|
-2
5 hrs
Vissertrans
France
France
Native in English
France
Chemistry, Chemie, chimie, scheikunde
Native in: English
Works in: German to English, French to English, Dutch to English
total work or total force
I'm wondering whether the French word 'effort' is not being used as a synonym for 'travail' (as in 'le travail d'une force' = work). A force does work on a body only if the body moves in the direction of the force. The sentence seems to be saying that there is no 'effort global associé' because there is no 'déplacement'. That would correspond to no work being done because there is no movement. However, it is true that 'effort' is normally understood to be a force rather than work (see for example http://www.gecif.net/articles/mecanique/cours/travail_puissa... where 'travail' is defined as 'effort utile x déplacement".
It could also simply mean that the total force is zero, because when a thermal load is applied to a material the molecules move around in all directions and the component forces cancel out, so there is no net displacement.
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Note added at 5 hrs (2017-08-21 16:02:36 GMT)
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I've submitted this mainly to stimulate further thought.
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Note added at 10 hrs (2017-08-21 21:02:10 GMT)
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Yes, on reflection I tend to favour my second solution, i.e. net or total force. Pas d’effort global associé = no associated net force.
It could also simply mean that the total force is zero, because when a thermal load is applied to a material the molecules move around in all directions and the component forces cancel out, so there is no net displacement.
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Note added at 5 hrs (2017-08-21 16:02:36 GMT)
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I've submitted this mainly to stimulate further thought.
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Note added at 10 hrs (2017-08-21 21:02:10 GMT)
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Yes, on reflection I tend to favour my second solution, i.e. net or total force. Pas d’effort global associé = no associated net force.
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
Tony M
: The concept of 'force' and 'work' in a techncial sense are quite distinct, and it would not be helpful to interchange them here. But FR 'effort' NEVER = 'work' in a technical sense.
4 hrs
|
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Of course they are different. I meant them as two distinct solutions corresponding to two distinct scenarios, one in which a force does no work because there is no displacement and the other in which forces in different directions cancel each other out.
|
|
| neutral |
Johannes Gleim
: I cannot support the suggestion that no force exists, if no displacement occurs. What about a pressurized vessel or a mechanically blocked piston?
18 hrs
|
|
No NET force. In your examples the net force is zero.
|
|
| disagree |
Daryo
: 'force' and 'work' as concepts in physics are definitely NOT synonyms // even if one was the correct translation, adding a completely different and wrong "alternative" is not helping anyone.
19 hrs
|
|
Thinking out loud can be a way to stimulate further thought.
|
1 day 38 mins
French term (edited):
il n’a pas d’effort global associé
it is not associated with any external load
le chargement thermique reste très différent du chargement de type déplacement imposé car il n’a pas d’effort global associé.
this is about the opposition between
le chargement thermique and chargement de type déplacement imposé
the key difference between the two leads to:
effort global = force applied to the whole of this object => originating from outside this object (thus generating "déplacement imposé")
whatever is happening with a material object due to a change of temperature doesn't involve any external force being applied to it.
simplest example:
a bimetal will start bending when heated without any external force being applied to the whole of it (= "globally")
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Note added at 1 day47 mins (2017-08-22 11:32:44 GMT)
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or
external solicitation
this is about the opposition between
le chargement thermique and chargement de type déplacement imposé
the key difference between the two leads to:
effort global = force applied to the whole of this object => originating from outside this object (thus generating "déplacement imposé")
whatever is happening with a material object due to a change of temperature doesn't involve any external force being applied to it.
simplest example:
a bimetal will start bending when heated without any external force being applied to the whole of it (= "globally")
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day47 mins (2017-08-22 11:32:44 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
or
external solicitation
Discussion
“Thermal stress, although closer in nature to strain than applied stress, still remains distinct from strain in that there is no directional vector involved.”
Note that the term “strain” could be replaced by “mechanical deformation”; however in the context of a stress-strain textbook the meaning ought to be clear.
Only the French would dream of introducing such an abstract concept into a text on stress-strain calculations; such a discussion would hardly be entertained in an English textbook. As such, whether it would be more accurate to simply omit this whole sentence in an English translation is open for discussion. However, before coming to a conclusion, one would need to know more about the general nature of the source text.