Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
cadence italienne
English translation:
perfect authentic cadence
Added to glossary by
Debora Blake
Oct 10, 2022 16:38
1 yr ago
44 viewers *
French term
Canada
"cadence italienne"
French to English
Art/Literary
Music
music theory
Part of a glossary for a book about music.
From my research, it appears to also be known as a "cadence complète", and follows the exact harmonic progression of IV, V, I.
I haven't found a name for this in English.
From my research, it appears to also be known as a "cadence complète", and follows the exact harmonic progression of IV, V, I.
I haven't found a name for this in English.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +2 | perfect authentic cadence |
Debora Blake
|
| 3 +2 | complete cadence |
James Roden
|
References
| Cadence harmonique |
Anastasia Kalantzi
|
Change log
Oct 24, 2022 08:43: Debora Blake Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+2
27 mins
Debora Blake
France
France
Native in French
&
English
France
Audiovisual Translation Specialist
Native in: English 
, French (Variant: Standard-France)
Works in: French to English, English to French, Italian to English, and 3 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
4
Selected
perfect authentic cadence
Technically speaking, there are 4 main types of cadences and they are made up of just 2 chords. However, there are variants and your IV-V-I 3-chord progression has its own Wikipedia page with an audio example.
The four types of cadences:
https://www.musicnotes.com/now/tips/cadences-in-music-theory...
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Note added at 36 mins (2022-10-10 17:14:49 GMT)
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@Asker Melanie, it's more complicated than that because the chords themselves can be composed in certain ways and that is also taken into account. An authentic cadence can be perfect or imperfect. And that can only be determined by looking at how the chords are composed. https://phamoxmusic.com/authentic-cadence/
https://musictheory.pugetsound.edu/mt21c/PerfectAuthenticCad...
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Note added at 43 mins (2022-10-10 17:21:10 GMT)
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Sure, no problem. And "cadences" per se only have 2 chords anyway, so we're trying to rebaptise le bœuf à 6 pattes. ;-)
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Note added at 1 hr (2022-10-10 17:41:56 GMT)
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According to my conservatory music teacher friend in Italy, this would be a "perfect cadence". She also said that it could be a II-V-I in that the II can derive from the IV.
Have a look here. Hope this helps!
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/perfect cadence
The four types of cadences:
https://www.musicnotes.com/now/tips/cadences-in-music-theory...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 36 mins (2022-10-10 17:14:49 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
@Asker Melanie, it's more complicated than that because the chords themselves can be composed in certain ways and that is also taken into account. An authentic cadence can be perfect or imperfect. And that can only be determined by looking at how the chords are composed. https://phamoxmusic.com/authentic-cadence/
https://musictheory.pugetsound.edu/mt21c/PerfectAuthenticCad...
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Note added at 43 mins (2022-10-10 17:21:10 GMT)
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Sure, no problem. And "cadences" per se only have 2 chords anyway, so we're trying to rebaptise le bœuf à 6 pattes. ;-)
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Note added at 1 hr (2022-10-10 17:41:56 GMT)
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According to my conservatory music teacher friend in Italy, this would be a "perfect cadence". She also said that it could be a II-V-I in that the II can derive from the IV.
Have a look here. Hope this helps!
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/perfect cadence
Note from asker:
| But technically a perfect authentic cadence is any cadence that moves from V to I, no? So it could be a II-V-I, for example, instead of IV-V-I. |
| I'm starting to realize I may be looking for a term that doesn't exist in English- it just seems strange that they'd have not just one, but two specific ways of referring to this progression in French, and none in English. |
| Right, I did not mean to imply all V-I cadences were PACs, just to point out that perfect authentic cadence is not synonymous with a IV-V-I progression. |
| And yet the term exists and seems to be used fairly widely in French, which is strange! But you've given me a new way to search- maybe I can try to find a name for the IV-V-I *progression* rather than *cadence*. |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Anastasia Kalantzi
: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aRBWDHE4g8
38 mins
|
|
Thank you, Anastasia!
|
|
| agree |
Kauê Oliveira
1 hr
|
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Thank you, Kauê!
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
+2
9 mins
complete cadence
cadence complète = complete cadence
"The authentic cadence when preceded by subdominant harmony is called complete cadence. The effective use of the authentic cadence is at the end of a period." (subdominant being IV, authentic cadence being V-I, the full sequence matches the definition of the cadence italienne of IV-V-I).
However there do not seem to be many corroborating sources around so this could just be one author's idiosyncratic decision to translate the term from French or another language.
"The authentic cadence when preceded by subdominant harmony is called complete cadence. The effective use of the authentic cadence is at the end of a period." (subdominant being IV, authentic cadence being V-I, the full sequence matches the definition of the cadence italienne of IV-V-I).
However there do not seem to be many corroborating sources around so this could just be one author's idiosyncratic decision to translate the term from French or another language.
Reference:
Note from asker:
| Yes, unfortunately I've seen several sources using 'complete cadence' to refer to any V-I cadence, which is not specific enough. |
| @phil: Not sure where you see this on Wikipedia? I've had a look at the French article, but nowhere do I see anything using the term 'complete cadence' in the English version to refer to this specific progression. |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
philgoddard
: That's what Wikipedia says. https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadence_harmonique#La_cadence_...
8 mins
|
| agree |
MassimoA
1 day 21 hrs
|
Reference comments
1 hr
Anastasia Kalantzi
Greece
Greece
Works in field
Greece
EnFrGreek Medical/Mechanical/Legal
Native in: Greek (Variant: Modern) , Greek (Ancient) (Variants: Koine (common), Doric, Homeric, Ionic, Aeolic)
Works in: French to Greek, Greek to French, English to Greek, and 5 more.
Discussion
At any rate, the client has informed me that what he means by "cadence italienne" is actually a II-V-I progression rather than IV-V-I, and he's leaning towards simply calling it an 'Italian cadence' (with footnote if necessary) rather than using any of the proposed definitions. Thanks for your ideas, though!