Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
élaguer vs rabattre
English translation:
prune vs. cut back
Added to glossary by
mediamatrix (X)
Dec 17, 2008 17:11
15 yrs ago
5 viewers *
French term
élaguer vs rabattre
French to English
Science
Botany
many ways of cutting plants!
I'm trying to differentiate between them. Here are the defintions I have to translate:
Élaguer: tailler un arbre pour lui donner une forme satisfaisante (sciage, tronçonnage)
Rabattre: couper un arbre ou une tige au ras du sol pour avantager les nouvelles pousses.
Rabattage: Sectionner les grosses branches d'un arbre.
I've also got émonder, which I've translated as 'to trim' (tailler un abre - même action que l'élagage, mais pratiqué seulement sur les tiges et les petites branches). And I've got étêter, which I've translated as 'to top'.
I first thought that élaguer should be translated as 'to prune' and rabattre as 'to pollard' and rabattage as 'pollarding' for 'rabattage', but I'm not sure. Maybe rabattage should be translated as 'to cut back'?
I found the following definitions online:
Voici donc le complément d'information que tu souhaites :
Elaguer c'est supprimer tout ou partie de certaines branches d'un arbre pour contenir son développement;
Rabattre, c'est supprimer des branches ou des rameaux sur une plante pour provoquer le développement de pousses en plus grand nombre et la densifier.
L'élaguage ne se fait que sur des arbres et le rabattage sur toute sorte de plante (je le fais par exemple au printemps sur un arbrisseau comme le perovskia pour que sa floraison soit plus dense).
Bonne journée
Also:
ARBORIC. ***Étêter*** un arbre, un arbuste. Couper la cime; élaguer. Cet arbre, planté sur le bord de la rivière il y a sans doute plus d'un siècle, avait été étêté dès sa jeunesse comme un saule (Bern. de St-P., Harm. nat., 1814, p. 82) :
***ÉLAGUER***, verbe trans.
A.− Dépouiller (un arbre, un arbuste) de ses branches et branchages superflus. Élaguer un arbre, une haie; branches élaguées. Quasi-synon. ébrancher, éclaircir, émonder, tailler. Comme un garde forestier qui, le printemps venu, élague avec soin les tranchées de sa forêt (Pergaud, De Goupil, 1910, p. 79). Mais dans l'air on entend toujours un sécateur qui élague discrètement les branches inutiles (Bosco, Mas Théot., 1945, p. 56) :
***RABATTRE***
ARBORIC., HORTIC. ,,Supprimer une partie d'un végétal pour diminuer sa taille et provoquer le développement de pousses nouvelles`` (Fleurist. 1978). On ne rabat pas la vigne, on la recèpe (Bén.-Vaesk. Jard. 1981).
So, what I'm proposing is
étêter = to top
élaguer = to prune
émonder = to trim
rabattage = cutting back/pollarding?
rabattre = to cut back /to pollard?
But I'm really not sure. Sorry to ask so many terms at once, but I need to separate them all in my head. Or at least 'élaguer' from 'rabattre'.
Any ideas gratefully received!
Many thanks in advance,
Sheila
Élaguer: tailler un arbre pour lui donner une forme satisfaisante (sciage, tronçonnage)
Rabattre: couper un arbre ou une tige au ras du sol pour avantager les nouvelles pousses.
Rabattage: Sectionner les grosses branches d'un arbre.
I've also got émonder, which I've translated as 'to trim' (tailler un abre - même action que l'élagage, mais pratiqué seulement sur les tiges et les petites branches). And I've got étêter, which I've translated as 'to top'.
I first thought that élaguer should be translated as 'to prune' and rabattre as 'to pollard' and rabattage as 'pollarding' for 'rabattage', but I'm not sure. Maybe rabattage should be translated as 'to cut back'?
I found the following definitions online:
Voici donc le complément d'information que tu souhaites :
Elaguer c'est supprimer tout ou partie de certaines branches d'un arbre pour contenir son développement;
Rabattre, c'est supprimer des branches ou des rameaux sur une plante pour provoquer le développement de pousses en plus grand nombre et la densifier.
L'élaguage ne se fait que sur des arbres et le rabattage sur toute sorte de plante (je le fais par exemple au printemps sur un arbrisseau comme le perovskia pour que sa floraison soit plus dense).
Bonne journée
Also:
ARBORIC. ***Étêter*** un arbre, un arbuste. Couper la cime; élaguer. Cet arbre, planté sur le bord de la rivière il y a sans doute plus d'un siècle, avait été étêté dès sa jeunesse comme un saule (Bern. de St-P., Harm. nat., 1814, p. 82) :
***ÉLAGUER***, verbe trans.
A.− Dépouiller (un arbre, un arbuste) de ses branches et branchages superflus. Élaguer un arbre, une haie; branches élaguées. Quasi-synon. ébrancher, éclaircir, émonder, tailler. Comme un garde forestier qui, le printemps venu, élague avec soin les tranchées de sa forêt (Pergaud, De Goupil, 1910, p. 79). Mais dans l'air on entend toujours un sécateur qui élague discrètement les branches inutiles (Bosco, Mas Théot., 1945, p. 56) :
***RABATTRE***
ARBORIC., HORTIC. ,,Supprimer une partie d'un végétal pour diminuer sa taille et provoquer le développement de pousses nouvelles`` (Fleurist. 1978). On ne rabat pas la vigne, on la recèpe (Bén.-Vaesk. Jard. 1981).
So, what I'm proposing is
étêter = to top
élaguer = to prune
émonder = to trim
rabattage = cutting back/pollarding?
rabattre = to cut back /to pollard?
But I'm really not sure. Sorry to ask so many terms at once, but I need to separate them all in my head. Or at least 'élaguer' from 'rabattre'.
Any ideas gratefully received!
Many thanks in advance,
Sheila
Proposed translations
(English)
4 +2 | prune vs. cut back | Jennifer Levey |
4 +2 | to prune (or lop) vs to coppice | B D Finch |
4 | to prune versus cut down/pull down | Mostafa MOUHIBE |
References
étêter | Alain Pommet |
Change log
Dec 31, 2008 10:59: mediamatrix (X) Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+2
3 hrs
Selected
prune vs. cut back
The differences between these terms have as much to do with the 'purpose' of the exercise as they have to do with the 'method'.
'pruning', as mentioned in asker's definitioons, refers to the removal of vegetation to encourage the formation of flowers and/or fruit in the following year.
'cutting back' is a more drastic form of pruning, having the additional purpose of controlling the overall size of the plant. Sometimes the need to control plant size may take precedence over the objectives of pruning - to the extent that the subsequent year's crop may be sacrificed.
'coppicing' and 'pollarding', mentioned elsewhere on this K-page, are specific forms of 'cutting back'. pollarding is where you cut off all the branches of a tree at the head of the trunk; coppicing is where you cut all the branches at (or very close to) ground level and the tree effectively has no trunk.
An important difference between pruning and pollarding/coppicing is that a pruned plant retains both old wood and wood from the current year - and the next year's growth shoots (mainly) from the current year's growth. So the plant steadily gets bigger from year to year - until it's so big it has to be 'cut back'. A pollarded/coppiced tree, in contrast, only has old wood (the bare trunk or the stump, respectively) and all next year's growth shoots from this.
Also, a tree is usually coppiced at intervals of several years, and is not pruned at all in this period, since the purpose is to grow thick straight 'branches' for use as stakes (or for charcol burning). Pollarding may be repeated every year (especially for ornamental purposes in parks and gardens), to provide thick vegetation providing summer shade.
Source: recollections of stuff I learnt from my grand-father who was head gardener on a country estate in England.
'pruning', as mentioned in asker's definitioons, refers to the removal of vegetation to encourage the formation of flowers and/or fruit in the following year.
'cutting back' is a more drastic form of pruning, having the additional purpose of controlling the overall size of the plant. Sometimes the need to control plant size may take precedence over the objectives of pruning - to the extent that the subsequent year's crop may be sacrificed.
'coppicing' and 'pollarding', mentioned elsewhere on this K-page, are specific forms of 'cutting back'. pollarding is where you cut off all the branches of a tree at the head of the trunk; coppicing is where you cut all the branches at (or very close to) ground level and the tree effectively has no trunk.
An important difference between pruning and pollarding/coppicing is that a pruned plant retains both old wood and wood from the current year - and the next year's growth shoots (mainly) from the current year's growth. So the plant steadily gets bigger from year to year - until it's so big it has to be 'cut back'. A pollarded/coppiced tree, in contrast, only has old wood (the bare trunk or the stump, respectively) and all next year's growth shoots from this.
Also, a tree is usually coppiced at intervals of several years, and is not pruned at all in this period, since the purpose is to grow thick straight 'branches' for use as stakes (or for charcol burning). Pollarding may be repeated every year (especially for ornamental purposes in parks and gardens), to provide thick vegetation providing summer shade.
Source: recollections of stuff I learnt from my grand-father who was head gardener on a country estate in England.
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
10 mins
to prune versus cut down/pull down
to prune versus cut down / pull down
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
SJLD
: salam Mostafa - it's Rabattre not abattre - the R makes all the difference :-)
42 mins
|
yup! i didn't see the R :(
|
+2
13 mins
to prune (or lop) vs to coppice
Your definition of rabattre definitely is not pollarding. Taking a tree down to ground level to get young shoots is coppicing.
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Note added at 16 mins (2008-12-17 17:28:06 GMT)
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Pollarding is when the main branches are cut back close to the trunk and the trunk itself reduced. The French seem quite addicted to this whether it is necessary (e.g. for street trees), or not.
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Note added at 6 hrs (2008-12-17 23:20:49 GMT)
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As SJLD notes, coppicing is more forestry, though I have had it done to trees to create a hedge between a park and new houses. I shouldn't think you'd coppice your rose bush.
Lopping would tend to be more drastic than pruning and actually seems more appropriate for both your description of élaguer and for what I'm asking my neighbours to do to their trees, but I suspect they'll only prune them.
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Note added at 6 hrs (2008-12-17 23:23:35 GMT)
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It is quite possible that the French boundaries between these terms are not quite the same as the English boundaries between terms and so you might translate the same word differently in different circumstances. (Chopping away at machine translation.)
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Note added at 16 mins (2008-12-17 17:28:06 GMT)
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Pollarding is when the main branches are cut back close to the trunk and the trunk itself reduced. The French seem quite addicted to this whether it is necessary (e.g. for street trees), or not.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs (2008-12-17 23:20:49 GMT)
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As SJLD notes, coppicing is more forestry, though I have had it done to trees to create a hedge between a park and new houses. I shouldn't think you'd coppice your rose bush.
Lopping would tend to be more drastic than pruning and actually seems more appropriate for both your description of élaguer and for what I'm asking my neighbours to do to their trees, but I suspect they'll only prune them.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs (2008-12-17 23:23:35 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
It is quite possible that the French boundaries between these terms are not quite the same as the English boundaries between terms and so you might translate the same word differently in different circumstances. (Chopping away at machine translation.)
Peer comment(s):
agree |
SJLD
: yes, coppicing certainly corresponds to the def of "rabattage" given above - perhaps more commonly expressed as "hard prune to ground level" or similar/yes, but it's more of a forestry than a gardening term
38 mins
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Thanks SJLD. Coppicing is actually a very special skill, not the same as "hard pruning" and coppices can be extremely old. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coppice
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agree |
Miranda Joubioux (X)
: coppicing fits perfectly with the descripition of rabattre, but not for rabattage, which sounds like 'reducing'. Elaguer is definitely 'prune'
3 hrs
|
Reference comments
4 hrs
Reference:
étêter
pollard
1. A tree whose top branches have been cut back to the trunk so that it may produce a dense growth of new shoots.
http://www.answers.com/topic/pollard
1. A tree whose top branches have been cut back to the trunk so that it may produce a dense growth of new shoots.
http://www.answers.com/topic/pollard
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