Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
a opéré un renversement
English translation:
worked backwards
Added to glossary by
Miranda Joubioux (X)
Oct 10, 2012 08:51
11 yrs ago
3 viewers *
French term
Miranda Joubioux (X)
a opéré un renversement
French to English
Tech/Engineering
Architecture
Target = uk
Context :
Le cahier des charges de cette consultation comportait 44 points, du plus précis au développement stratégique le plus large. Pour aborder ce projet, XXX, associé à YYY, a opéré un renversement : prendre un par un les points et contraintes et les transposer en autant de dessins.
I generally translate this by 'reversal' on its own, but it doesn't actually work here and I'm striking a blank on how to phrase this.
Any ideas?
Context :
Le cahier des charges de cette consultation comportait 44 points, du plus précis au développement stratégique le plus large. Pour aborder ce projet, XXX, associé à YYY, a opéré un renversement : prendre un par un les points et contraintes et les transposer en autant de dessins.
I generally translate this by 'reversal' on its own, but it doesn't actually work here and I'm striking a blank on how to phrase this.
Any ideas?
Proposed translations
(English)
Proposed translations
58 mins
Selected
worked backwards
Perhaps
"Architect Azin Valy, of I-Beam Architecture and Design, worked backwards, however, designing her Lower East Side one-bedroom to accomodate her husband's (commercial director Glenn Lazzaro) collection of Eames furniture."
http://ny.curbed.com/tags/open-house-new-york
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Note added at 22 hrs (2012-10-11 07:22:53 GMT)
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"Larkin (1981) found strategy differences, where novices solving physics problems tend to work backwards from the problem goal, whereas experts work forwards from the problem givens to the goal. Anderson (1985) suggests that in programming novices work forwards, writing a program line by line, whereas experts work backwards, breaking the program goal into modular units."
www.cl.cam.ac.uk/teaching/1011/R201/ppig-book/ch1-4.pdf
"Architect Azin Valy, of I-Beam Architecture and Design, worked backwards, however, designing her Lower East Side one-bedroom to accomodate her husband's (commercial director Glenn Lazzaro) collection of Eames furniture."
http://ny.curbed.com/tags/open-house-new-york
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 22 hrs (2012-10-11 07:22:53 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
"Larkin (1981) found strategy differences, where novices solving physics problems tend to work backwards from the problem goal, whereas experts work forwards from the problem givens to the goal. Anderson (1985) suggests that in programming novices work forwards, writing a program line by line, whereas experts work backwards, breaking the program goal into modular units."
www.cl.cam.ac.uk/teaching/1011/R201/ppig-book/ch1-4.pdf
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "This was the solution I was happiest with in the end, although I'm not convinced that asking questions is working backwards. However, you can't change the French and that's what it says. I toyed with Nikki's solution too, but couldn't really work it in.
Many thanks to everyone who answered. They were all interesting suggestions and could work in other contexts."
53 mins
worked the other way round
I understand "bottom to top" (du plus précis au plus large) vs "top to bottom" approach, and I could have written "a travaillé dans l'autre sens" instead of the "renversement"
3 hrs
Christopher Crockett
Native in English
Specializes in field
M.A., Ph.D. Historian/Art Historian
Native in: English 
Works in: French to English, English
Related KudoZ points
:
79
reverse engineer
?
Seems like this methodology is basically what is being talked about --don't build the thing from scratch to see how to build it, but look at one that is already built and take it apart to see how it was built, then build it yourself that way.
(This is, apparently, the preferred Chinese methodology. It works for anything from automobile design to Rolex watches to Gucci loafers. )
However, shoehorning this phrase/term into your translation might be somewhat expensive, word-wise.
Seems like this methodology is basically what is being talked about --don't build the thing from scratch to see how to build it, but look at one that is already built and take it apart to see how it was built, then build it yourself that way.
(This is, apparently, the preferred Chinese methodology. It works for anything from automobile design to Rolex watches to Gucci loafers. )
However, shoehorning this phrase/term into your translation might be somewhat expensive, word-wise.
3 hrs
carried out a reversal
In this context literal translation seems by far the most logical: Operer = carry out, effect, make... Renversement = inversion, overthrow, reversal.
3 hrs
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Native in English
Psychologist, Court-certified legal
Native in: English 
Works in: French to English
Related KudoZ points
:
7
turned the process/project on its head
Perhaps you might be able to express this more freely to allow for the meaning that this way of working as a complete turnaround from the approach that was expected.
Maybe, just maybe, "operated a complete turnaround in approach" might do the trick, although it is admittedly a little free.
Maybe, just maybe, "operated a complete turnaround in approach" might do the trick, although it is admittedly a little free.
7 hrs
took a ladder-down approach
Hello,
In other words, they're seeing the blueprint of each "point" instead of going with all the "points" to see the result for which they may need to make corrections/modifications.
There are two ways that people tend to take in information, one is the ‘ladder up’ approach where you work your way up the logical ladder to finally get to the main point. The other is the reverse, the ‘ladder down’ approach; you want to see the main point first and then understand the workings behind it
http://www.steakgroup.com/blog/2012/03/surely-there-must-be-...
Don't get over specific here as it's just a simple "reverse logic" concept.
I hope this helps.
In other words, they're seeing the blueprint of each "point" instead of going with all the "points" to see the result for which they may need to make corrections/modifications.
There are two ways that people tend to take in information, one is the ‘ladder up’ approach where you work your way up the logical ladder to finally get to the main point. The other is the reverse, the ‘ladder down’ approach; you want to see the main point first and then understand the workings behind it
http://www.steakgroup.com/blog/2012/03/surely-there-must-be-...
Don't get over specific here as it's just a simple "reverse logic" concept.
I hope this helps.
1 day 2 hrs
...the idea was overturned
Pour aborder ce projet, XXX, associé à YYY, a opéré un renversement
In its approach to this project (xxx in collaboration with yyy) the idea was overturned:
en cas de renversement...<> when overturned...
In its approach to this project (xxx in collaboration with yyy) the idea was overturned:
en cas de renversement...<> when overturned...
Discussion
"au lieu de répondre aux points, comme ce serait la méthodologie la plus logique, ils commencent par questionner ces points même."
"ils commencent par questionner ces points même." THAT I find to be a very logical approach - (and have no ties to Jesuits) - BTW very useful on this site as some questions need first to be clarified before being answered.
au lieu de répondre aux points, comme ce serait la méthodologie la plus logique, ils commencent par questionner ces points même.